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Rack mount frame for Blackmagic Smartview duo monitors


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Hello

 

I am designing a protective, 19” rackmountable frame for Blackmagic Smartview duo monitors. Would appreciate opinions on need to be tiltable, recess the front of screen and if so how much min., recess the rear of monitor and if so how much min., whether it really needs a protective removable cover for front and or rear of monitor when removed for transport or for inclement weather? Looks like might want it to be big enough to house the Speakeasy speakers too?

Thanks!

Mark

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48 minutes ago, Trey LaCroix said:

I will warn you that blackmagic do not offer repair for the smartview duo (learned that the hard way). If that is an issue for you you might want to look at a different monitor.

Any suggestions for Similar popular support monitors? I am designing vertical Location Sound Mixer carts for resale and want to make it easy to attach the most common monitors. I thought this was a popular model but if there are others I would love to know the model/brand names so I can get the dimensions

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3 hours ago, indiefilm said:

Any suggestions for Similar popular support monitors? I am designing vertical Location Sound Mixer carts for resale and want to make it easy to attach the most common monitors. I thought this was a popular model but if there are others I would love to know the model/brand names so I can get the dimensions

It is popular and I was happy with it. I was not happy with their customer service or repair policies. I have since switched to Marshall.

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Hi Mark.

 

I use the Black Magic Duo monitors on a vertical (Rastorder DD) cart which is a different design from what I believe you are working on. Tiltable is very useful but not 100% necessary if set up to correct eye height. I've added a folding sun hood to mine which I find essential on sunny outdoor shoots. I also added a small easily detachable BNC patch panel to the rear of my cart as the BNC on the smart Duo are soldered straight to the mother board making it a week point. 

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20 hours ago, indiefilm said:

Any suggestions for Similar popular support monitors? I am designing vertical Location Sound Mixer carts for resale and want to make it easy to attach the most common monitors. I thought this was a popular model but if there are others I would love to know the model/brand names so I can get the dimensions

I used the Lilliput dual 7" rack-mount RM7028S and found them much more versatile and better image than the BlackMagic Duo.  For one thing

they have HDMI and SDI and Component and Composite inputs and front panel switches to control the monitor and switch inputs.  With the BM Duo you need a computer hooked to the LAN port running proprietary software to just adjust the display.  With the Lilliput, you can feed your laptop or mac mini into the HDMI input and switch between it  and the 3G SDI camera feeds using a front panel switch.  Here is the link:

Lilliput 7" on Amazon

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11 hours ago, Nate C said:

Hi Mark.

 

I use the Black Magic Duo monitors on a vertical (Rastorder DD) cart which is a different design from what I believe you are working on. Tiltable is very useful but not 100% necessary if set up to correct eye height. I've added a folding sun hood to mine which I find essential on sunny outdoor shoots. I also added a small easily detachable BNC patch panel to the rear of my cart as the BNC on the smart Duo are soldered straight to the mother board making it a week point. 


Nate, Thx for feedback. Forgive me  if I ask a stupid question as I am more a videocamera guy than a location audio guy. Would it be best if I provide the option of a small patch panel, possibly quick releasable, directly on my proposed tiltable frame for the Blackmagic Smartview Duo rackmount monitor? 

 

The Rastorder type cart design you mention requires everything be removed from the shelves to fold it up, so you are right, my carts design type is not leaning that way at this point. That seems to me to be an unnecessary requirement for a vertical cart, and though thinner when folded, it also becomes much longer and their small casters don’t quick release, do they? Is having to remove all the gear something That bothers you?  It also is a very fragile design sure to get bent when folded if you ever check it as baggage, even if stored in their expensive soft bag.

 

BTW, i have read other comments on this forum where people say they want very large front casters on the front of their cart, like 5-8”. I don’t understand why since if using the cart outside on unlevel and bumpy ground, where I presume they feel the need for the larger caster wheels, they would have plenty of room to tilt back the vertical cart to its huge rear wheels and move it like a two wheeled hand truck. Have you regretted that your Rastorder cart does not have bulkier, heavier 5 or 8” front casters? 

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On 2/12/2020 at 4:10 PM, Sound Grab said:

Tiltable, but also able to fold down and slide horizontal into a rack space.


literally slide into just 1 rack space? or would  more be ok, like 3 or 4RU (if including room for say the Speakeasy speaker RU or a patch bay? It presume it could course slide into the back rackmount behind other, short-depth rack mount gear. Reason for deeper frame include better protection for from and or back of monitor and or attaching accessories.

Edited by indiefilm
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On 2/13/2020 at 11:43 AM, Trey LaCroix said:

I will warn you that blackmagic do not offer repair for the smartview duo (learned that the hard way). If that is an issue for you you might want to look at a different monitor.

 That won’t be a problem with my carts or accessories. Designed not to break but if they do, parts are replaceable at the smallest of levels and obsolescence of the carts overall is out because of the extreme customizability of the designs... Obsolescence Made Obsolete™ 

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5 hours ago, indiefilm said:


literally slide into just 1 rack space? or would  more be ok, like 3 or 4RU (if including room for say the Speakeasy speaker RU or a patch bay? It presume it could course slide into the back rackmount behind other, short-depth rack mount gear. Reason for deeper frame include better protection for from and or back of monitor and or attaching accessories.

 

I currently use a 4RU rack space case. With the 3RU Smartview Duo and the Remote Audio 1RU speakeasy. It would be crazy if I could fit both pieces of gear into a 2U case. I'm not sure if that's even possible with the width of the BMD. I also wouldn't mind disconnecting the cables in the back of the BMD to get back into the case if I needed to.

It honestly wouldn't be advantageous to me if the BMD still took the 3RU and slid back into the case. I could easily just put the rack case cover on to protect the screens if I wanted to during transport. The ability to make it compact first, then tiltable is how I would personally prioritize my setup.

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My preference is to have the patch panel separate to the monitor mount. Its all about ease of getting to. 

 

The DD-Cart doesn't fold like the Fold Up cart. I modified mine to have 16 inch rear tyres and by doing so I had to use larger 100mm front casters. Rastorder carts normally come with 75mm front castors. I've found this sufficient but occasionally a crack in the footpath can catch you up and the cart tends to want to fall forward as they are inherently top heavy. Never had either of my carts actually face plant. 

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14 hours ago, Nate C said:

My preference is to have the patch panel separate to the monitor mount. Its all about ease of getting to. 

 

The DD-Cart doesn't fold like the Fold Up cart. I modified mine to have 16 inch rear tyres and by doing so I had to use larger 100mm front casters. Rastorder carts normally come with 75mm front castors. I've found this sufficient but occasionally a crack in the footpath can catch you up and the cart tends to want to fall forward as they are inherently top heavy. Never had either of my carts actually face plant. 

So I am curious why you didn’t just tilt your cart back on the large, rear wheels when moving outside on a cracked footpath. Was it that the handle(s) on the cart was(were) not at a comfort table height/angle to do so?

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47 minutes ago, indiefilm said:

So I am curious why you didn’t just tilt your cart back on the large, rear wheels when moving outside on a cracked footpath. Was it that the handle(s) on the cart was(were) not at a comfort table height/angle to do so?

 

It's easier to push the cart on four wheels as your not carrying any of the weight. In the case of hitting cracks I simply wasn't aware of they were there.

 

I use camera handles with rosette that i can change the angle of on my carts. This is as I have to lay the cart down to fit in my car.

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2 hours ago, Nate C said:

 

It's easier to push the cart on four wheels as your not carrying any of the weight. In the case of hitting cracks I simply wasn't aware of they were there.

 

I use camera handles with rosette that i can change the angle of on my carts. This is as I have to lay the cart down to fit in my car.

Thx Nate. Yes, Rosettes are great for that. Did they come with cart? If not can I ask where you got them and the name/model number?

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I'm not certain if this is really helpful but I'll share some photos showing how Chinhda met the challenge of fitting a double monitor panel into his carts. Regrettably, Chinhda is no longer able to make new monitor displays for clients but seeing how he made everything work together might be useful. It's also possible that some of the components may still be available in his shop but that would necessitate a search.

 

David

P3085985.jpg

P4016105.jpg

PanelsOpen3Inch.jpg

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On 2/13/2020 at 10:56 PM, cmgoodin said:

I used the Lilliput dual 7" rack-mount RM7028S and found them much more versatile and better image than the BlackMagic Duo.  For one thing

they have HDMI and SDI and Component and Composite inputs and front panel switches to control the monitor and switch inputs.  With the BM Duo you need a computer hooked to the LAN port running proprietary software to just adjust the display.  With the Lilliput, you can feed your laptop or mac mini into the HDMI input and switch between it  and the 3G SDI camera feeds using a front panel switch.  Here is the link:

Lilliput 7" on Amazon

 

I agree with Courtney regarding the BlackMagic Duo line of video monitors  ---  I still don't know why they were so popular. I realize this topic is all about a mounting solution for them so I won't hijack the thread. The lack of up front controls on the BlackMagics really put me off. 

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13 hours ago, Nate C said:

 

It's easier to push the cart on four wheels as your not carrying any of the weight. In the case of hitting cracks I simply wasn't aware of they were there.

 

I use camera handles with rosette that i can change the angle of on my carts. This is as I have to lay the cart down to fit in my car.


That is a damn good idea! Never seen before a sound cart with rosette handles. 

 

11 hours ago, indiefilm said:

Thx Nate. Yes, Rosettes are great for that. Did they come with cart? If not can I ask where you got them and the name/model number?


There are tonnes of different ones you could get, I got a couple myself direct from China for quite cheap to use with my Sony PMW-F3 camera rig. 

Be warned though, that there is more than one rosette "standard".

 

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18 hours ago, Nate C said:

 

It's easier to push the cart on four wheels as your not carrying any of the weight. In the case of hitting cracks I simply wasn't aware of they were there.


I‘m sure you know this by now, but when you move your cart on all 4 wheels, always lead with the large rear wheels. Then small cracks and bumps won’t potentially ruin your cart. And equipment 

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On 2/14/2020 at 4:29 PM, Sound Grab said:

 

I currently use a 4RU rack space case. With the 3RU Smartview Duo and the Remote Audio 1RU speakeasy. It would be crazy if I could fit both pieces of gear into a 2U case. I'm not sure if that's even possible with the width of the BMD. I also wouldn't mind disconnecting the cables in the back of the BMD to get back into the case if I needed to.

It honestly wouldn't be advantageous to me if the BMD still took the 3RU and slid back into the case. I could easily just put the rack case cover on to protect the screens if I wanted to during transport. The ability to make it compact first, then tiltable is how I would personally prioritize my setup.

The reason for the thicker frame was to provide a better/easier means for protecting the screen and or the rear connection. I had misspoke and written 3RU but it was really 3”/less than 2RU. I’ll work on a 1RU solution that protects the screen.

15 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said:

 

I agree with Courtney regarding the BlackMagic Duo line of video monitors  ---  I still don't know why they were so popular. I realize this topic is all about a mounting solution for them so I won't hijack the thread. The lack of up front controls on the BlackMagics really put me off. 

Jeff, from my research so far, as you all probably already knew if I am correct, at least some of the other brands like the Lilliput have the same mounting and overall dimensions. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am still researching brands. Someone had mentioned one that is tiltable already, I believe, that I need to find the mention of research.

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8 hours ago, IronFilm said:


That is a damn good idea! Never seen before a sound cart with rosette handles. 

 


There are tonnes of different ones you could get, I got a couple myself direct from China for quite cheap to use with my Sony PMW-F3 camera rig. 

Be warned though, that there is more than one rosette "standard".

 

Sure, I have plenty lying around I got from China when the FS7 first came out to fix the too short arm situation. But Those are only about 1” diameter which doesn’t give them much leverage/increases the stress on them. I am hoping to get some rosettes at least 1-1/2” - 2” in diameter. Anybody know of any that size?

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19 hours ago, David Waelder said:

I'm not certain if this is really helpful but I'll share some photos showing how Chinhda met the challenge of fitting a double monitor panel into his carts. Regrettably, Chinhda is no longer able to make new monitor displays for clients but seeing how he made everything work together might be useful. It's also possible that some of the components may still be available in his shop but that would necessitate a search.

 

David

P3085985.jpg

P4016105.jpg

PanelsOpen3Inch.jpg

Thx David. I am learning things overall from the discourse with everyone, often in ways nobody would guess, but grateful nonetheless. As I wrote before, I wish I could see one of these carts in person as the thing I would be most like to benefit from would be close-up details not clear from photos or the video that might actually spur use in a different way. 
Disadvantage to this type of monitor mounting solution seems to me to be you can’t easily change the height location. Also, I am bucking the current manufacturing trend here, but it looks like it requires a lot of machining. Necessity is the mother of invention. I don’t plan on getting my own CNC machine and besides, for cost and environmental reasons, I am trying to avoid turning 40-50% of the 6061 aluminum I just purchased for 5-10$ US per pound into shavings worth 10-30 cents per pound that require energy to be consumed/pollution to recycle them into a useable form of aluminum again.
 

looks like he also did what possibly every other aluminum cart maker is doing today by bending flat sheet to make the shelves. Not to pick on this amazing, over the top cart, but since it is no longer s available for purchase hopefully everyone will forgive me for using it as the example. With its yield strength of 40,000 psi, 6061 alloy aluminum is much harder to permanently deform than 5052 with its yield strength of only 28000 psi.

 

But 6061 is too brittle to bend, so they have to resort to using the weaker 5052 aluminum sheet for making bent shelves/work surfaces. 5052 is fine in some situations.
 

No need and wasteful to reinvent the wheel, or the nuts and bolts, when and if I can find an existing though obscure part that can be creatively used. It’s not easy and is harder than ever to get a patent, must be “non-obvious to a (fictitious) person skilled in the art” but if anyone thinks a design using little or no custom parts is not patentable, think again. Somewhere on this forum I saw someone belittling carts using “off the shelf parts”. The most valuable company in the world today started out using a bunch of off the shelf parts. It requires more creativity to come up with a great design without milling machines, hence why so many resort to CNC these days, often with questionable results. Steve Wozniak refered to chips as “the lumber of the computer industry”. Architects design amazing, one of a kind buildings from homes to skyscrapers using off-the-shelf lumber, steel studs, joists, beams and columns.  CNC has its uses. I will have some custom machined parts but hopefully few, and patentable. There may be exceptions but I am trying to make the designs as environmentally sustainable as possible while not cost prohibitive. Luckily the two often are not mutually exclusive.

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23 hours ago, indiefilm said:

Thx Nate. Yes, Rosettes are great for that. Did they come with cart? If not can I ask where you got them and the name/model number?

 

The Rosettes didn't come with the cart. I sourced them from smallrig.com. Sorry I don't recall the part no's. Went with smaller rosettes that are about 1inch diameter instead of larger ones. There was a reasoning for this which eludes me at the moment. In hind sight larger Rosettes like the Arri would of been better as there are more options in handles available. The 1 inch Rosette handles have been on two different carts over the last few years and I've single handedly lugged them up many steps without any issues. Alas I live in a fourth floor walk up apartment with no elevator. 

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