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Thought y’all would be interested in this:    

Don't think many readers will seriously think about abandoning the van they drive down the freeway with but... this would be cute for moving the rig around the lot (better than a golf cart anyway

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More seriously, though, I think I understand Rado's hesitancy. Especially in the Las Vegas area (where I've ridden and long long ago raced). Not consistent bike-friendly roads or infrastructure there (there are some great roads to ride for fun; fewer to safely commute in my not-fully-informed opinion), and there was a horrific collision outside of LV a couple months ago (a friend worked for one of the people killed): Driver Who Killed 5 Cyclists Had Methamphetamine in His System, Prosecutors Say

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Simon Hayes said:

I have started cycling to work twice per week, generally Mondays and Fridays. I am studio based and it's a 32 mile round trip.  

So jealous. My dream job. I see great pic of you doing some skills on a BMX as well.

 

20 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

Actually cycling behind busses and cars in urban areas and breathing the poisons directly in to your open lungs is idiotic and extremely unhealthy. Again if separate bike roads away from cars exist it is a different story. 

Some study i read suggested the pollution in traffic effected drivers more. Because the car fills up with the stuff and your lungs aren't moving the air in and out as much and in heavy traffic the car will mean you are in it longer. I've seen folks cycling in Vegas, traffic didn't look to bad but the heat was another thing.

 

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4 hours ago, daniel said:

So jealous. My dream job. I see great pic of you doing some skills on a BMX as well.

 

Some study i read suggested the pollution in traffic effected drivers more. Because the car fills up with the stuff and your lungs aren't moving the air in and out as much and in heavy traffic the car will mean you are in it longer. I've seen folks cycling in Vegas, traffic didn't look to bad but the heat was another thing.

 

You close the vent and circulate the air inside the car. 
also when seating still your lungs are not open the same as when you exercise them like running or biking so that study is BS. 
 

Screw the pollution. We are in a airborne pandemic. Do you bike with N95 masks?

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2 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

You close the vent and circulate the air inside the car. 
also when seating still your lungs are not open the same as when you exercise them like running or biking so that study is BS. 
 

Screw the pollution. We are in a airborne pandemic. Do you bike with N95 masks?

 

Rado, there's been several studies on this. And many appear to be fairly carefully done and account for your concern (though of course, I'm not a scientist). One line from the abstract: "Therefore, even after taking the increased respiration rate of cyclists into consideration, car drivers seem to be more exposed to airborne pollution than cyclists." That's from this: Differences in cyclists and car drivers exposure to air pollution from traffic in the city of Copenhagen

 

There was another study more recently that gets closer to your concern, but according to this news coverage of the study, "The cyclists were exposed to a total of 12m pollution particles during their journey, almost half the number encountered by those in buses and cars. Cyclists may breathe more rapidly as they exercise, which would bring the particles they inhale up to close to that of motorised transport users. But on routes with slow traffic, where car and bus commuters are forced to sit in clouds of pollution, cyclists fare best." The news story can be read here: Cyclists 'exposed to less air pollution than drivers' on busy routes

 

And even though this is a sound forum, I'll include a visual from that article:

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 10.40.25 AM.png

 

 

And yes, when necessary, I ride with a mask. Not always N95 since I'm leaving those for first responders and others. But if I'm next to a bus or within about 50m of other people, I have a good mask on. It works out fine.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

 

Rado, there's been several studies on this. And many appear to be fairly carefully done and account for your concern (though of course, I'm not a scientist). One line from the abstract: "Therefore, even after taking the increased respiration rate of cyclists into consideration, car drivers seem to be more exposed to airborne pollution than cyclists." That's from this: Differences in cyclists and car drivers exposure to air pollution from traffic in the city of Copenhagen

 

There was another study more recently that gets closer to your concern, but according to this news coverage of the study, "The cyclists were exposed to a total of 12m pollution particles during their journey, almost half the number encountered by those in buses and cars. Cyclists may breathe more rapidly as they exercise, which would bring the particles they inhale up to close to that of motorised transport users. But on routes with slow traffic, where car and bus commuters are forced to sit in clouds of pollution, cyclists fare best." The news story can be read here: Cyclists 'exposed to less air pollution than drivers' on busy routes

 

And even though this is a sound forum, I'll include a visual from that article:

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 10.40.25 AM.png

 

 

And yes, when necessary, I ride with a mask. Not always N95 since I'm leaving those for first responders and others. But if I'm next to a bus or within about 50m of other people, I have a good mask on. It works out fine.

 

 

 

Hold on!!!!!!!

Are we talking about the United states or Europe? 

Europe "especially Denmark" have addressed the car/bike situation.

My home city Varna has a giant park running along it and major boulevards with restaurants and stores have always been bikes and pedestrians only. 

If you follow my comments I said if there are separate exclusive bike roads it makes sense. Biking with cars is where it gets really stupid and arguing that riding a bike in "lets say NY City" is healthy is ether ignorant or some serious propaganda. 

 

Lets make an experiment:

You come inside my garage next to my car, we close it and start the engine. Lets see who dies first. 

Even if taking air from outside cars have good filters. My car has Hepa filters. A lot better then biking behind a bus while your lungs are physically open.

 

Now this graph bellow has to be explained with simple math:

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 10.40.25 AM.png

 

Your lungs work 5 times more when exercising.

You breathe 15 times a minute normal state - "12 liters of air" and 40-60 times a minute "100 liters of air" when exercising.

The 11m biking from the graph above become the equivalent  56-60 minutes of pollution and actually even worst than walking. 

SO BIKING IS THE MOST UNHEALTHY WAY OF TRANSPORTATION.

This seams like another one of those dumb studies made to engage the upper class and propagandize a certain political agenda.

 

 

From Your lungs and exercise (nih.gov)

 

"During exercise, two of the important organs of the body come into action: the heart and the lungs. The lungs bring oxygen into the body, to provide energy, and remove carbon dioxide, the waste product created when you produce energy. The heart pumps the oxygen to the muscles that are doing the exercise.

When you exercise and your muscles work harder, your body uses more oxygen and produces more carbon dioxide. To cope with this extra demand, your breathing has to increase from about 15 times a minute (12 litres of air) when you are resting, up to about 40–60 times a minute (100 litres of air) during exercise. Your circulation also speeds up to take the oxygen to the muscles so that they can keep moving."

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Well I am one of the lazy ones.  Back when I had Segways, I would sometimes use one to access the location in downtown Nashville.  Events like the CMA awards where parking and access were difficult.  I would ride it up and down the red carpet early while crews would being setting up and at the end of the night.

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1 hour ago, drpro said:

Well I am one of the lazy ones.  Back when I had Segways, I would sometimes use one to access the location in downtown Nashville.  Events like the CMA awards where parking and access were difficult.  I would ride it up and down the red carpet early while crews would being setting up and at the end of the night.

Segway would be healthier than a bicycle because of your rate of breading. 

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18 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

BTW from your graph 4 kilometers is approximately 2.5  miles. Tell me how many people in the united states commute 2.5 miles to work and from work. Some people travel more just to buy milk.

I imagine this is probably the biggest barrier for most North Americans (and many others) when it comes to commuting by bike. So many cities seem to have evolved around freeways and parking lots it would take a sea change in infrastructure, city layout and economics to reduce car dependency meaningfully.

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1 hour ago, daniel said:

I imagine this is probably the biggest barrier for most North Americans (and many others) when it comes to commuting by bike. So many cities seem to have evolved around freeways and parking lots it would take a sea change in infrastructure, city layout and economics to reduce car dependency meaningfully.

Too true. It is a Catch-22 problem. Roads are built for cars (SUVs) because there are few bike commuters. People won't ride bikes because they don't want to end up in the grill of a Chevrolet Suburban. Bike commuting will only influence infrastructure if more people commute.

On a positive note, with Covid influencing peoples' travel habits and modes of exercise , bicycle sales and Ebike sales are at an all time high.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

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22 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

Bike commuting doesn't work for everyone, but it does for lots of people. This is a pretty cool 10-min video:

 

 

 

nice film and mostly decent road surface!

 

22 hours ago, LarryF said:

Too true. It is a Catch-22 problem. Roads are built for cars (SUVs) because there are few bike commuters. People won't ride bikes because they don't want to end up in the grill of a Chevrolet Suburban. Bike commuting will only influence infrastructure if more people commute.

On a positive note, with Covid influencing peoples' travel habits and modes of exercise , bicycle sales and Ebike sales are at an all time high.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/15/cyclists-paved-way-for-roads

 

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On 2/5/2021 at 4:00 PM, RadoStefanov said:

 

Hold on!!!!!!!

Are we talking about the United states or Europe? 

Europe "especially Denmark" have addressed the car/bike situation.

My home city Varna has a giant park running along it and major boulevards with restaurants and stores have always been bikes and pedestrians only. 

If you follow my comments I said if there are separate exclusive bike roads it makes sense. Biking with cars is where it gets really stupid and arguing that riding a bike in "lets say NY City" is healthy is ether ignorant or some serious propaganda. 

 

Lets make an experiment:

You come inside my garage next to my car, we close it and start the engine. Lets see who dies first. 

Even if taking air from outside cars have good filters. My car has Hepa filters. A lot better then biking behind a bus while your lungs are physically open.

 

Now this graph bellow has to be explained with simple math:

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 10.40.25 AM.png

 

Your lungs work 5 times more when exercising.

You breathe 15 times a minute normal state - "12 liters of air" and 40-60 times a minute "100 liters of air" when exercising.

The 11m biking from the graph above become the equivalent  56-60 minutes of pollution and actually even worst than walking. 

SO BIKING IS THE MOST UNHEALTHY WAY OF TRANSPORTATION.

This seams like another one of those dumb studies made to engage the upper class and propagandize a certain political agenda.

 

 

From Your lungs and exercise (nih.gov)

 

"During exercise, two of the important organs of the body come into action: the heart and the lungs. The lungs bring oxygen into the body, to provide energy, and remove carbon dioxide, the waste product created when you produce energy. The heart pumps the oxygen to the muscles that are doing the exercise.

When you exercise and your muscles work harder, your body uses more oxygen and produces more carbon dioxide. To cope with this extra demand, your breathing has to increase from about 15 times a minute (12 litres of air) when you are resting, up to about 40–60 times a minute (100 litres of air) during exercise. Your circulation also speeds up to take the oxygen to the muscles so that they can keep moving."

 

 

One thing I feel is overlooked here, if you are cycling to work you are probably more health conscious and exercise more often on your own. Thus your breathing wouldn't be as laborious as expressed in the study. It's also assuming those biking to work are doing so at an aerobic rate, which all my friends who do try their best not to sweat on the way to work, so I would be surprised if their breathing rates were that high on the commute. Now, maybe these people think their cycling commute is exercise enough for them and don't do anything else on their own, still increases conditioning leading to lower respiratory rates over time. I.E. the better shape (condition) you are in the less work your lungs have to do to keep up with the oxygen needed (very oversimplified I know, but I doubt sound people want to get into VO2 Max and Efficiency). 

 

Without being a scientist myself, I'm sure there is also a case to be made that those cycling at a higher rate and are breathing more and moving more air (including everything else that's not just oxygen) are also pushing out the pollution at a higher rate as their respirations increase. The question is how long of an exposure is too long and how quickly are the pollutants absorbed.

 

All of that said, cycling is exercise, which in its nature is good for you. Despite the risks of pollution I think the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives here.

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