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Sony Wireless Slot in vs Hot Shoe UWP-D URX-S03D vs URX-P03D for Sony FX9

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Hi, 

I would like to buy the new Sony fx9 as my next camera and need some dual channel wireless audio input.

There are two option URX-P03D with hot shoe mount or the slot in URX-S03D with the sony adapter module XDCA-FX9.

As I had some problems with the hot shoe mount (its a little unreliable), I am not sure if its good enough for professional use.

They brought out a digital hot shoe connection, but there is no dual channel receiver available with this connection.

 

The other option is the slot in receiver S03D, but its more  2,5 times the price of the P03D.

Are there any reasons for that besides the better connection or is this just marketing as they sell it for "professionals"?

Do they have better reception or more functions? 

The URX-P03D would be 750 euros and the URX-S03D is 1700 Euros an you need the extension unit which is 2500 Euros.

So 750 against 4200 Euros..

 

Has anybody tried the slot in receivers or maybe compared them to the other ones?

 

https://pro.sony/de_DE/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-p03d

https://pro.sony/de_DE/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-s03d

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The XDCA hasn't been routing the receiver outputs to the camera, which is unbelievable but true. This will be solved with the new FX9 firmware in october or later.

But all in all the XDCA solution is far more reliable and safe but bulky and expensive.

The MI shoe solution is light and affordable but sensitive to humidity and it can break more easily. The audio connection through the shoe will be digital w/ next fw so audio quality won't be an issue.

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I know little about these units, but wouldn‘t another option be to use the cheaper receiver and use the analog out to the camera xlr in?

not as neat as the hot shoe, but more reliable i figure.

 

And if I were to spend over 4k for a camera hop, I‘d definitely look into other options with better audio quality and that can also be used on other cameras.

 

just some thoughts

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5 hours ago, Mungo said:

The XDCA hasn't been routing the receiver outputs to the camera, which is unbelievable but true. This will be solved with the new FX9 firmware in october or later.

But all in all the XDCA solution is far more reliable and safe but bulky and expensive.

The MI shoe solution is light and affordable but sensitive to humidity and it can break more easily. The audio connection through the shoe will be digital w/ next fw so audio quality won't be an issue.

?? That's crazy ?? So you can't use the audio slot at all right now?? 

1 hour ago, chrismedr said:

I know little about these units, but wouldn‘t another option be to use the cheaper receiver and use the analog out to the camera xlr in?

not as neat as the hot shoe, but more reliable i figure.

 

And if I were to spend over 4k for a camera hop, I‘d definitely look into other options with better audio quality and that can also be used on other cameras.

 

just some thoughts

Yes, but you have only two analog ins. If you use hot shoe or slot in you get two additional ones.. and then you need a lot of cables and attachments for the receivers. And maybe power supply if you don't want to change batteries frequently. 

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11 hours ago, Sound said:

The other option is the slot in receiver S03D, but its more  2,5 times the price of the P03D.

 

That's still not that expensive at all for the Sony S03D, that is less than half the price of the slot in dual reciever from Lectrosonics (and the Wisycom / Audio Ltd slot dual receivers would both be priced similar to Lectrosonics). 

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Nothing about the audio performance of the receivers but I shot four projects with the FX9 over a month in February. I liked the camera. I didn't use any slot receivers and I did use the XDCA, primarily so I could power the camera with V Mounts. IMHO, adding the XDCA and a good sized Vmount and a single or pair of receivers will change the footprint, balance and overall weight and bulkiness considerably. I found the camera with the adapter and a thick V mount to be overly long and a lot heavier. If you come from Arri Alexas and big shoulder mounted cameras, bearable. If you come from smaller cameras, you might find the same.

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11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That's still not that expensive at all for the Sony S03D, that is less than half the price of the slot in dual reciever from Lectrosonics (and the Wisycom / Audio Ltd slot dual receivers would both be priced similar to Lectrosonics). 

Yes, but why 2,5 times just for having it as slot in? Didn't want to complain, I was just curious. Maybe there are advantages with the slot in version I don't know about..

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56 minutes ago, Sound said:

Yes, but why 2,5 times just for having it as slot in?

It isn't 2.5x more, it is barely more than 2x the price:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1245557-REG/sony_urxs03d_14_uwp_d_portable_two_channel.html/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1259500-REG/sony_urx_p03d_14_urx_pd0214.html

I've never used the Sony S03D, so I can't really comment too much about the specifics, maybe someone from Sony can explain. Andy would be the man to ask:

 



Well, I dug deeper. And if you look at the specs, seems like perhaps maybe there is a major difference here between them:

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-s03d#ProductSpecificationsBlock-urx-s03d
https://pro.sony/en_NZ/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-p03d#ProductSpecificationsBlock-urx-p03d
As the P03D has this note: "True Diversity for 1ch use / Dynamic Switching Diversity for 2ch use". But the S03D has no such note for 2ch usage. 

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Thanks! T

That was what I hoped for. I will ask sony.

On 5/8/2020 at 3:24 PM, IronFilm said:

In Germany it's 2,5 times the price.. ;)

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On 5/8/2020 at 2:56 AM, Dan Brockett said:

Nothing about the audio performance of the receivers but I shot four projects with the FX9 over a month in February. I liked the camera. I didn't use any slot receivers and I did use the XDCA, primarily so I could power the camera with V Mounts. IMHO, adding the XDCA and a good sized Vmount and a single or pair of receivers will change the footprint, balance and overall weight and bulkiness considerably. I found the camera with the adapter and a thick V mount to be overly long and a lot heavier. If you come from Arri Alexas and big shoulder mounted cameras, bearable. If you come from smaller cameras, you might find the same.

That's my main concern! I come from very small cameras (a7s, a7 III) with rig or gimbal and tried the fs7 some time ago. To me it felt heavy - and very front heavy with a big lens. So most people recommend a vmount adapter at the back to balance the fx9 although it adds much more weight. Did you have problems balancing the camera without the adapter?  

 

I even had an easyrig some time ago and still one some support rods for my camera rigs but I was very happy to finally get rid of them as they really limit my movement and speed while working. In documentary it's all about speed. 

 

I use the small cameras together with a sound bag right now so I get even more audio channels and it works, although you have to charge and think of lots of differebt batteries every time (camera, audio mixer, lav mics, gimbal etc..) But now "summer is coming" in Germany and I had overheating issues with the a7 III outside in the sun (uhd recording with face autofocus and lens correction on) and don't know if I can fix them with an external battery and maybe a mini fan attached. But this solution it's not 100 percent reliable and adds even more cables again. So maybe I will have to switch to a "big" camera eventually although I hate all that extra weight. 

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 11:36 PM, Sound said:

?? That's crazy ?? So you can't use the audio slot at all right now??

 

Yes, at least with another receiver: I tested it with a DWR-S02, and the camera just didn't recognize its presence. Sony confirmed this issue. Anyway,  this will be solved this year.

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14 hours ago, Sound said:

That's my main concern! I come from very small cameras (a7s, a7 III) with rig or gimbal and tried the fs7 some time ago. To me it felt heavy - and very front heavy with a big lens. So most people recommend a vmount adapter at the back to balance the fx9 although it adds much more weight. Did you have problems balancing the camera without the adapter?  

 

You can also look at swapping out the original rods for the view finder for third party ones which are longer to place it further in front, this will then allow you to shift the weight of the camera back without ending up with the viewfinder being in an awkwardly far back place too. 

Like this for example:
https://woodencamera.com/products/uvf-mount-sony-fx9-fs7-fs7mkii-panasonic-eva1-no-clamp

What you'll need will also depend on the size/weight of the lens you're using too.

 

14 hours ago, Sound said:

I use the small cameras together with a sound bag right now so I get even more audio channels and it works, although you have to charge and think of lots of differebt batteries every time (camera, audio mixer, lav mics, gimbal etc..) But now "summer is coming" in Germany and I had overheating issues with the a7 III outside in the sun (uhd recording with face autofocus and lens correction on) and don't know if I can fix them with an external battery and maybe a mini fan attached. But this solution it's not 100 percent reliable and adds even more cables again. So maybe I will have to switch to a "big" camera eventually although I hate all that extra weight. 

Using a dummy battery in the camera and keeping the screen flipped out, can help keep at bay longer the overheating in the Sony a7 series of cameras. 
But this is one of the reasons I prefer the rock solid workhorses that are the Panasonic GH series instead. (I've got a couple myself, while my Sony mirrorless would overheat in a blink of an eye)

 

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On 5/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Sound said:

That's my main concern! I come from very small cameras (a7s, a7 III) with rig or gimbal and tried the fs7 some time ago. To me it felt heavy - and very front heavy with a big lens. So most people recommend a vmount adapter at the back to balance the fx9 although it adds much more weight. Did you have problems balancing the camera without the adapter?  

 

 

 

 

I found, for me, personally, the FX9 with the XDCA back and a good size V mount to be too long and too heavy. I used it mainly with the 28-135mm f/4.0 G OSS lens, which is really liked, but I liked the rig better without the XDCA back and the small batteries. Without the back, yes, the camera was very front heavy. A good compromise might be the much smaller and cheaper battery plates from Wooden and Tilta (I think it was those two so far?) They are much less money and much shorter than the XDCA. For me personally, I have never cared about wireless receiver slots, I would rather work with a pro sound mixer when I am shooting and we attach whatever they are using for a wireless hop via Velcro, rear rods, 1/4" 20 holes, etc. For me, wireless slots are for newsshooters who don't work with a sound mixer. Few pro sound mixers I work with use Sony wireless.

My main A camera is the Canon C200, or our C300 MKII if we have clients who don't want RAW. Granted, I rig those cameras up with the Zacuto VCT Pro, rods, handgrip extension, etc. so those cameras aren't super small and light as well but when fully rigged, they are still smaller and lighter than the FX9 with the XDCA. A lot of it just depends on what you mostly shoot. On tripod, who cares about weight and length? But if you are walking around a hot beach all day with the camera on your shoulder and no tripod, every ounce counts IMHO.

I shot some sunsets and surfers for stock with the FX9, the XDCA and the Sony 100-400mm G OSS lens and that setup was ridiculous because it is a very long lens, mounted on a very long camera and back. Liked the lens but carrying it and trying to fit it on the floor of my car for transport was a mess. My B camera is the Fujifilm X-T3, which is super tiny and light weight so going from that to the fully rigged FX9 was quite a shock.

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17 hours ago, Dan Brockett said:

 

I found, for me, personally, the FX9 with the XDCA back and a good size V mount to be too long and too heavy. I used it mainly with the 28-135mm f/4.0 G OSS lens, which is really liked, but I liked the rig better without the XDCA back and the small batteries. Without the back, yes, the camera was very front heavy. A good compromise might be the much smaller and cheaper battery plates from Wooden and Tilta (I think it was those two so far?) They are much less money and much shorter than the XDCA. For me personally, I have never cared about wireless receiver slots, I would rather work with a pro sound mixer when I am shooting and we attach whatever they are using for a wireless hop via Velcro, rear rods, 1/4" 20 holes, etc. For me, wireless slots are for newsshooters who don't work with a sound mixer. Few pro sound mixers I work with use Sony wireless.

My main A camera is the Canon C200, or our C300 MKII if we have clients who don't want RAW. Granted, I rig those cameras up with the Zacuto VCT Pro, rods, handgrip extension, etc. so those cameras aren't super small and light as well but when fully rigged, they are still smaller and lighter than the FX9 with the XDCA. A lot of it just depends on what you mostly shoot. On tripod, who cares about weight and length? But if you are walking around a hot beach all day with the camera on your shoulder and no tripod, every ounce counts IMHO.

I shot some sunsets and surfers for stock with the FX9, the XDCA and the Sony 100-400mm G OSS lens and that setup was ridiculous because it is a very long lens, mounted on a very long camera and back. Liked the lens but carrying it and trying to fit it on the floor of my car for transport was a mess. My B camera is the Fujifilm X-T3, which is super tiny and light weight so going from that to the fully rigged FX9 was quite a shock.

 

I was looking at the wooden camera adapter plate as well these days.. My main concern is, that you cannot see or hear when the battery is running out. I had already lost some shots with my vmount camera rig because the camera suddenly shut down. That seems too risky. I dont know if the original adapter from sony can share the battery status?

The original batteries could be the best options, but a front heavy camera isnt perfect as well...

So maybe its the wrong camera for me at all.. I have to carry it around for sometimes 16 hours a day as a one man band..  

On 5/8/2020 at 3:24 PM, IronFilm said:

Well, I dug deeper. And if you look at the specs, seems like perhaps maybe there is a major difference here between them:

https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-s03d#ProductSpecificationsBlock-urx-s03d
https://pro.sony/en_NZ/products/uwp-d-series-receivers/urx-p03d#ProductSpecificationsBlock-urx-p03d
As the P03D has this note: "True Diversity for 1ch use / Dynamic Switching Diversity for 2ch use". But the S03D has no such note for 2ch usage. 

I asked some sony vendors. They confirmed that the slot in version has the same issue: True diversity only in one channel mode. Otherwise you would need four antennas instead of two (thats what they told me)

On 5/11/2020 at 12:34 AM, IronFilm said:

You can also look at swapping out the original rods for the view finder for third party ones which are longer to place it further in front, this will then allow you to shift the weight of the camera back without ending up with the viewfinder being in an awkwardly far back place too. 

Like this for example:
https://woodencamera.com/products/uvf-mount-sony-fx9-fs7-fs7mkii-panasonic-eva1-no-clamp

 

Thanks. I already looked at those accessories as well. Its crazy that you have to spend 330 dollars to make a brand new camera usable. Why didnt they finally fix the mistakes they made with the fs7 and fs7 II?

On 5/11/2020 at 12:34 AM, IronFilm said:

Using a dummy battery in the camera and keeping the screen flipped out, can help keep at bay longer the overheating in the Sony a7 series of cameras. 
But this is one of the reasons I prefer the rock solid workhorses that are the Panasonic GH series instead. (I've got a couple myself, while my Sony mirrorless would overheat in a blink of an eye)

 

I even ordered a mini-fan to put it between the sceen and the back of the camera in case of emergency.. but I think there is no chance at all in summer in direct sunlight. Did the GH series really hold up well in summer in the sun??

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If you are used to lugging a broadcast 2/3" type, or Arri, fully outfitted RED camera all day, you'll be fine. If you mostly shoot with an A7 mirrorless, you're going to find an FX9 with the kit lens, XDCA or other back and a V Mount is going to feel huge and really heavy to you, especially lugging it for 16 hour days as a OMB. Perhaps I am spoiled but I find the C200 to work better for that type of shooting, cradled mostly. Even fully outfitted with all of the Zacuto and Wooden Camera gak I have to make it work as a shoulder mounted camera, it is much shorter, smaller and lighter. Maybe also consider the C300 MKIII, which looks to be a pretty great camera package that also shoots internal RAW as well as XF-AVC. Trust me when I say the S35 sensor is not any worse or better overall than the FF on the FX9 in use. FF is not the be all end all that many in the business paint it to be. I don't mind it but I would never let it dictate a camera purchase for me. 

Sorry for the topic creep. Good luck!

 

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1 hour ago, Dan Brockett said:

If you are used to lugging a broadcast 2/3" type, or Arri, fully outfitted RED camera all day, you'll be fine. If you mostly shoot with an A7 mirrorless, you're going to find an FX9 with the kit lens, XDCA or other back and a V Mount is going to feel huge and really heavy to you, especially lugging it for 16 hour days as a OMB. Perhaps I am spoiled but I find the C200 to work better for that type of shooting, cradled mostly. Even fully outfitted with all of the Zacuto and Wooden Camera gak I have to make it work as a shoulder mounted camera, it is much shorter, smaller and lighter. Maybe also consider the C300 MKIII, which looks to be a pretty great camera package that also shoots internal RAW as well as XF-AVC. Trust me when I say the S35 sensor is not any worse or better overall than the FF on the FX9 in use. FF is not the be all end all that many in the business paint it to be. I don't mind it but I would never let it dictate a camera purchase for me. 

Sorry for the topic creep. Good luck!

 

You are right. C300 mkiii seems to be a much better camera. The problem is to find a good everyday lens for this camera, and then I don't know if it's still worth investing in ef mount lenses today. Autofocus is right now is actually necessary for me as a omb and it has become really great even on the a7 III that I don't want to miss it ever again. But when Canon switches to rf mount I wouldnt be able to use all that ef mount glass with af. And I am pretty sure the prices for ef mount will drop massively. As I already own the Sony 28-135, the fx9 is actually cheaper for me.. do you know a good and affordable all round lens for the c300 iii? And can you add four audio channels? That's the other main feature I need. 

 

Right now I am using an audio bag with a mixpre 10 ii ans six lav mics, and it is heavy but with the right harness the weight is only on your hips so you can use your shoulders for your camera. But dual system with timecode sync creates a lot of new problems and possible causes for errors so i thought it would be much easier to have all in one. I heard that you can attach two more lav mics via minijack input on some Canon cameras so you have four channels as well but I don't know if it's reliable and if the sound quality is fine..

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I had to double check if I was on JWsoundGroup.net or some wedding photography forum, whilst scrolling trough this topic... What is up next? Lightning advice and, hey why not, catering tips?

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1 hour ago, Vincent R. said:

why not, catering tips?


I‘m up for those! Now that my children are at home ALL THE TIME, I also have to cook every day, and, worse, think of something to cook every day, too...

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11 hours ago, Sound said:

I was looking at the wooden camera adapter plate as well these days.. My main concern is, that you cannot see or hear when the battery is running out. I had already lost some shots with my vmount camera rig because the camera suddenly shut down. That seems too risky. I dont know if the original adapter from sony can share the battery status?

 

Can't you see the voltage from the V Mount battery on the display?? That should give you a heads up as to when the battery will run out. 

 

11 hours ago, Sound said:

Thanks. I already looked at those accessories as well. Its crazy that you have to spend 330 dollars to make a brand new camera usable. Why didnt they finally fix the mistakes they made with the fs7 and fs7 II


I'm sure you could find a cheaper source for those rods, and even three hundred bucks isn't much relative to the cost of a FX9 kit. 
And they can't make a camera perfect for everyone, that's just impossible. Plus it would rase the base price of the camera itself, the more Sony adds to it. And for many people the stock FS7 is just fine, and they don't tweak it further. 
 

5 hours ago, Dan Brockett said:

Trust me when I say the S35 sensor is not any worse or better overall than the FF on the FX9 in use. FF is not the be all end all that many in the business paint it to be. I don't mind it but I would never let it dictate a camera purchase for me. 

I agree!

 

5 hours ago, Sound said:

And can you add four audio channels? That's the other main feature I need. 


You're running four wireless on a regular frequent basis as a OMB camera crew?? Seems a bit insane. 

 

5 hours ago, Sound said:

And I am pretty sure the prices for ef mount will drop massively.

Not just EF Mount, but all DSLR glass will drop drastically in the near/mid term future. Looking forward to picking up a cheap Nikon D750/D500 kit with F Mount glass. 

 

5 hours ago, Sound said:

do you know a good and affordable all round lens for the c300 iii?

Not this lens, because it is Super35mm, but if you got a S35 camera instead (such as the C200/C300mk2, both of which can do 4ch recording btw, not that I'd recommend it!) then the Canon CN-E 18-80mm T4.4 is a good and very affordable cine zoom lens to pair with the C200 / C300mk2 that has AF:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1246187-REG/canon_1714c002_cn_e_18_80mm_t4_4_compact_servo.html/
 

5 hours ago, Sound said:

Right now I am using an audio bag with a mixpre 10 ii and six lav mics

HUH?? I thought the discussion earlier of 4x lavs for a OMB camera crew was a bit crazy.... but now you're saying SIX lavs??
(btw, if you got a MixPre6mk2 you'd slim that down a bit, vs a MP10)

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17 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Can't you see the voltage from the V Mount battery on the display?? That should give you a heads up as to when the battery will run out. 

I am afraid you can't.

The camera will suddenly just shut down, or you have to look at the adapter itself, but this means lifting the camera off your shoulder.

 

Quote


I'm sure you could find a cheaper source for those rods, and even three hundred bucks isn't much relative to the cost of a FX9 kit. 
And they can't make a camera perfect for everyone, that's just impossible. Plus it would rase the base price of the camera itself, the more Sony adds to it. And for many people the stock FS7 is just fine, and they don't tweak it further. 
 

I agree!

Hmm. Mostly I heard complaints. To make it at bit longer doesn't cost Sony a single euro in production.

Quote


You're running four wireless on a regular frequent basis as a OMB camera crew?? Seems a bit insane. 

 

Not just EF Mount, but all DSLR glass will drop drastically in the near/mid term future. Looking forward to picking up a cheap Nikon D750/D500 kit with F Mount glass. 

 

Not this lens, because it is Super35mm, but if you got a S35 camera instead (such as the C200/C300mk2, both of which can do 4ch recording btw, not that I'd recommend it!) then the Canon CN-E 18-80mm T4.4 is a good and very affordable cine zoom lens to pair with the C200 / C300mk2 that has AF:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1246187-REG/canon_1714c002_cn_e_18_80mm_t4_4_compact_servo.html/ 

 

Looks good but I have to find out if I can get four audio in the c300 iii. Why don't you recommend it? Audio quality? Reliability? 

 

Quote

HUH?? I thought the discussion earlier of 4x lavs for a OMB camera crew was a bit crazy.... but now you're saying SIX lavs??
(btw, if you got a MixPre6mk2 you'd slim that down a bit, vs a MP10)

Yes sir, six wireless lavs, a rode ntg3 and a lav mic plugged in directly to record my own voice. So in total 8 xlr Inputs. That's why I need the mixpre 10 ii. ;)

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11 hours ago, Sound said:

Why don't you recommend it? Audio quality? Reliability? 

Because juggling eight channels of audio AND operating the camera as well, is just silly!

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41 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Because juggling eight channels of audio AND operating the camera as well, is just silly!

At least I can record all channels separately and "mix it in post" ;) But you are right, it's not easy but there is no other way..

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On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 7:14 AM, Sound said:
On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 9:24 AM, IronFilm said:

As the P03D has this note: "True Diversity for 1ch use / Dynamic Switching Diversity for 2ch use". But the S03D has no such note for 2ch usage. 

I asked some sony vendors. They confirmed that the slot in version has the same issue: True diversity only in one channel mode. Otherwise you would need four antennas instead of two (thats what they told me)

Very sorry for the late reply...The URX-S03D (along with the DWX series DWRS02D's and DWR-S03D) has 4 internal tuners, with double tuner diversity for each of the two channels.  This is regardless of whether one or both channels are powered on, btw.  Also, both channels share the same pair of antennas.  Hope this helps answer the earlier question.

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3 hours ago, Andy Munitz Sony said:

Very sorry for the late reply...The URX-S03D (along with the DWX series DWRS02D's and DWR-S03D) has 4 internal tuners, with double tuner diversity for each of the two channels.  This is regardless of whether one or both channels are powered on, btw.  Also, both channels share the same pair of antennas.  Hope this helps answer the earlier question.

That's strange, the vendor told me he even contacted Sony and the confirmed that there is no true diversity for dual channel operation. Only "Antenna diversity". Do you mean antenna diversity with these 4 tuners? 

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