Upgrading my Shotgun Mic

[fmurdoch]

Hey everyone,

 

Relatively new to the sound scene, and I still have the shotgun mic I bought when I was just starting out: a RODE NTG4. I recently invested in an AT4053b that I found for a good deal, and it's been great filling in for most purposes, but for outdoor shooting sometimes both options feel like they miss the mark. I'm wondering what the logical next step would be for an upgrade to the NTG4. It seems like the 416 has a reliable reputation, but does it make more sense to invest in a slightly higher end option like the 8060? I could also sell my NTG4 and get an NTG3 for almost nothing.

 

I'm still a student, so I can't realistically afford anything in the range of a DPA 4017, but I feel like the NTG4 doesn't really achieve the quality I want even for the smaller scale productions. 

 

Thanks for any and all advice!

 

Finn

 

 

[thenannymoh]

1) depends on what kind of work you are realistically aiming for in the next year or so...narrative? docs? corporate? shorts?

2) at some point there is definitely diminishing returns...at around the $1000 mark, you'll start paying 30% more for 10% improvement

3) definitely buy used to get the best bang for buck...a 416 may not ever be the best choice, but it is rarely the wrong choice

4) good mics never go out of style, and hold (or even increase) in value

5) what recorder are you feeding?

6) the older I get, the less I know

[Tim Norris]

14 minutes ago, thenannymoh said:

4) good mics never go out of style, and hold (or even increase) in value

5) what recorder are you feeding?

 

... and have a good boom pole or three.

 

If you are ready to spend, go all the way. Best mic, best wind protection, best boom.

 

My first mic was a Schoeps 30-35 years ago. I only do news, but I carry four Schoeps and two 416s. I like the Schoeps (CMC1U/MK41) for its light weight and short profile... being able to boom overhead indoors with low ceilings is good. I use it for everything, indoors and out.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[berniebeaudry]

Give the Diety mics a listen if you're still in budget mode.  They have a 416 style mic that is budget friendly and built as tough as a 416.  Might be just a little heavier.

[fmurdoch]

3 hours ago, thenannymoh said:

1) depends on what kind of work you are realistically aiming for in the next year or so...narrative? docs? corporate? shorts?

mostly narrative and shorts at the moment, but I get some corporate work as well.

3 hours ago, thenannymoh said:

5) what recorder are you feeding?

I'm feeding into an F8n.

 

2 hours ago, Tim Norris said:

... and have a good boom pole or three.

 

If you are ready to spend, go all the way. Best mic, best wind protection, best boom.

 

My first mic was a Schoeps 30-35 years ago. I only do news, but I carry four Schoeps and two 416s. I like the Schoeps (CMC1U/MK41) for its light weight and short profile... being able to boom overhead indoors with low ceilings is good. I use it for everything, indoors and out.

 

I've found a 416 for $550 nearby me and I feel like that might be the best cost-effective option. It seems like everybody has a 416 at least as a backup in their kit, so I imagine I could hold onto it for a long time even if it is replaced as my primary choice eventually. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pge0Ah4fmWY

I watched a few of these to get an idea of how they sound and I was pleasantly surprised with how well the 416 held up with much more expensive options. I loved how the CMIT 5 sounded; maybe that's my long term goal. Definitely need an upgrade at boom before then too.

 

[Axel Mishael]

The sennheiser 416 is the best one to start in my opinion, and it's a warhorse too, no matter the weather condition it'll never let you down, I'll suggest that if you want to buy an used mic, to try at least to hear it first, it'll be always better to have a new one, regardless the brand and model.

[Wandering Ear]

You already have a good mid level option, so I’d suggest being patient, save your money and get the mic you want.  Buy once, cry once.  That’s assuming you are planning a career in production sound.
Unlike wireless or other items that have to be turned over every so often, great mics can last your whole career and are worth every penny. 
If you spend your resources on the affordable options now, in the long run it will take you longer before you get into the top end mics that you desire.  
I believe there is a really good deal on a cmit on here right now if you have the ability to push your budget, and they come up regularly enough that if you save up and keep your eye on the for sale posts you will find one once your finances allow. 
Also consider renting items as you get jobs while you are building your kit. Early on i rented items I didn’t own frequently until i could save enough to purchase them. It worked well for me to be able to access professional gear quickly without incurring debt. 

[Jason Nightall]

416 has the following going for it IMO:

• Good price second hand, lots available to chose from.
• A real workhorse. Can withstand a wide range of temperatures and weather.
• Will last years, decades if you look after it.
• Some consider it to be the "cinema sound" microphone.
• Lots of accessories available for it second hand. Rycote has a wind shield and other parts specifically for the 416 for example.
• One of the few bits of sound kit clients might have heard of so you could potentially use it to market yourself. Can't say that with most sound kit unless your clients are very technical and in the game.

Or just save up for the mic you really want. I don't think the NTG4 is a bad mic although I don't own one so can't really comment.

[JonG]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:15 AM, fmurdoch said:

I've found a 416 for $550 nearby me and I feel like that might be the best cost-effective option.

I’d say go for that. A 416 will last you a lifetime, and later on you may find that you use it less as you buy fancier mics, but it will never let you down. I never leave home without one even though I may intend on using fancier mics. The general rule tends to be that the fancier the mic, the more fragile it is. Sometimes you just know that conditions might not be right for the more expensive mics, but that 416 will handle anything. 
 

Try not to take too many baby steps when buying gear. Generally speaking, every time you buy something that is a small upgrade or half way point, you are losing money, and those cheaper options will be harder to sell when you want to replace them. Try to make the best moves you can. Just do some research, find the item that you need, and try to get a good deal on it. 
 

But if you really want to work in sound you may try reaching out to local pros in your market and see about booming or A2ing for them so that you can learn the ropes, make connections, and save money so that you can afford the good stuff when it’s time. This will also allow you to learn about rates and business because nobody wants a new guy on the scene who doesn’t know what to charge, and who may inadvertently be disrupting the established going rates for the local pros. 

[Constantin]

Normally I don’t recommend the 416 purely based on its sound, size and weight, none of which is on par with modern mics anymore. 
Having said that, as others have pointed out, it’s a very reliable workhorse and as such a very good backup mic. I have two, even though I don’t like it. So if you can get a good deal, then I‘d say take it and start with what may well become your first backup mic. 
I personally tend to not buy used mics, unless it’s from a very reputable source, like the manufacturer. I have had bad luck buying mics even from the usual suspects and so I don’t do it. So many things can happen to a mic that can ruin its quality and you won’t even see it. The 416 may be the one exception to that rule as it’s so sturdy, but still, if you can buy new

[codyman]

416's are great BUT make sure it's a real one!  There's a lot of fakes floating out there.

 

https://sound-grab.com/blog/how-to-identify-a-fake-sennheiser-mkh-416/

[fmurdoch]

17 hours ago, JonG said:

But if you really want to work in sound you may try reaching out to local pros in your market and see about booming or A2ing for them so that you can learn the ropes, make connections, and save money so that you can afford the good stuff when it’s time. This will also allow you to learn about rates and business because nobody wants a new guy on the scene who doesn’t know what to charge, and who may inadvertently be disrupting the established going rates for the local pros. 

I think this is the next step for me, I'm going to a mixer next month to try and meet more folks in the industry. What ways would you suggest reaching out? Aside from organized events is cold dming worth it? 

I think I'm going with the 416, I'll verify to make sure the one I get is real of course. I like the idea of using it as a primary mic now and still being able to pivot to it if the environment requires it later. It seems like it will always retain some usefulness. Thank you all for the advice.
 

[JonG]

4 hours ago, fmurdoch said:

What ways would you suggest reaching out?

Invite them out for a coffee/beer

[PMC]

When I first started out, before electric light bulbs, I bought a 416 and an 816. I still have them both and they still make it to set when I am sportsing or shooting in bad weather. Great bad weather mics. Definitely not indoor mics in reflective environments.

 

Kent

[VASI]

You will be supriced if you hear a supercardoid without interference tube from a hypercardioid / supercardioid with interference tube (shotgun). All the shotguns out there, their directivity starts around from 1000Hz and above and below that frequency isn't directional at all, well, because of physics. All of them (shotgun) will perform better (better cancellation) if the background noise is constant. IMHO, will need a very good judgement when to bring out MKH50 or 416 (or Sanken CS3e) and when not, but this is another story.

 

My advice is to start with Sennheiser MK 416 which is miles better from NTG4; and if you need to add something else, look to rent MKH50 for indoor situation. If you are "brave" and use MKH50 outside, you will never want to hear any shootgun at all.