most musical 4-8 channel digital recorder

[Fred Salles]

Hello. AETA was a great brand for preamp in France from the 90s till end of the 2ks. Their ultra portable stereo preamp PSP3 (and PSP2 before) was a must in our kits to go capture stereo ambiance in the field along with a DAT portable stereo recorder as most of them had poor sounding preamps. We were still using NAGRA tape recorders for synch dialog scene but on several of my first short films I use it in a combination with the EAA micromix portable mixer (by AETA engineers before they were called AETA) which had very beautiful sounding preamps, close to a Neve sound. So that was also my choice for acoustic music recording. I owned (still own) a SQN 4s for all my tv and documentary jobs as they were the best in ruggedness and ergonomics but the sound was not as musical (more flat than the EEA).

Later on for all acoustic music related  jobs I used the AETA mini-mixer MIXY and later their beautiful MIX2000 that had great AD converters embedded, mixing down to stereo and recorded to a DAT machine. They were very musical sounding machines.

But... I have never used the 4MINX since when it came out I was already a Sound Devices 7 series fanatic. 

 

For more recent options I would second  Sonosax recorder or preamp: Actually a pair of M2D2 in combination with any 4 track recorder with AES inputs would be great for what you are looking for. The preamp of the M2D2 are my favorite sounding preamps both for voices/dialogue and music. They sound very natural.

I have now a sound devices 888 and the preamps are beautiful and I do all my film work with it with great satisfaction, but I still have a preference  for the Sonosax sound.

last note: forget about the Sound devices 6 series, they are the less interesting preamp of them all in term of sound. Unless you feed it with the sonosax preamps. 

 

[axel]

What I read between grawk's lines is, that he would love to have a small equipment with a compact footprint and a minimum of cable work around. Something you can place on your lap.

It can be fancy and he would devote himself to an elegantly engineered, best sounding, yet compact peace of equipment he can caress with his dust brush.

Does not need to have the latest software features and does not need to follow the latest film workflows.

 

If 4-5 analog inputs suffice, try to get hold of a used Sonosax SX-R4, SX-R4+ or a Cantar X1 or X2 (which are basically the same). For all of those, you can expand track count with a noble sonosax or aaton preamp to feed into the digital inputs if you need a couple of tracks extra.

If you are better off with 8 mic pres out of the box, grab a used SD 788T.

 

If you are OK with plastic look and feel but want to have decent preamps, go for a Mixpre 10 (also 8 mic pre's) 

A good bang for the buck can also be a Zoom F8 (also 8 mic pre's).

 

I think for the price you pay, Zaxcom is leaning more towards functionality than beautiful sound, although their preamp standards on the cabled inputs might be high as well. But that is just my personal opinion.

[grawk]

17 minutes ago, axel said:

What I read between grawk's lines is, that he would love to have a small equipment with a compact footprint and a minimum of cable work around. Something you can place on your lap.

It can be fancy and he would devote himself to an elegantly engineered, best sounding, yet compact peace of equipment he can caress with his dust brush.

Does not need to have the latest software features and does not need to follow the latest film workflows.

 

Basically. The form and function of a location sound bag, with between 4 and 8 preamp channels and 2 line in or aes inputs capable of recording isos. The 788T is perfect in form and function, and is on my list. The reason I asked about the specific devices I did here is that they’re not as prevalent in the concert recording world, and have a reputation for world class preamps. I’m disappointed to scratch the nova from the list, but also not because it makes the choice easier. I have been leaning toward either the aeta or sonosax all along, the nagra was a wildcard because I do have a gear fetish of sorts and they’re beautiful devices. 

[DanieldH]

I have a 4minX. I hardly use it, but good to have. At some point I will sell or barter it inside EU, so, I am not advertising mine to you.

 I cannot confirm the slight tone at (was it 8?)kHz. Maybe my unit is not affected or I just don't hear it. It can be notched out later anyway. 

2. The menu and overall firmware design did not reach adulthood and things like metadata, monitoring matrix, menu ergonomics and some other foo are a complete pain in film workflows. Probably much less so in music room recording, if you can prepare in advance. 

It has 4 analog inputs, yes, all with 48V, but they come in two pairs with diffent dynamic ranges! Dig the specs, and compare with other brands/models mentioned in this thread. You can add more channels with an old MixPreD or Sonosax M2D2 via 2 AES pairs that also offer AES42/SRC btw. 

The unit is quite big, but it is still light as they enclosed a lot of air.

The main reason why you probably won't buy a 4minX is, there is virtually no market! At least last time, I checked.

[grawk]

26 minutes ago, DanieldH said:

I have a 4minX. I hardly use it, but good to have. At some point I will sell or barter it inside EU, so, I am not advertising mine to you.

 I cannot confirm the slight tone at (was it 8?)kHz. Maybe my unit is not affected or I just don't hear it. It can be notched out later anyway. 

2. The menu and overall firmware design did not reach adulthood and things like metadata, monitoring matrix, menu ergonomics and some other foo are a complete pain in film workflows. Probably much less so in music room recording, if you can prepare in advance. 

It has 4 analog inputs, yes, all with 48V, but they come in two pairs with diffent dynamic ranges! Dig the specs, and compare with other brands/models mentioned in this thread. You can add more channels with an old MixPreD or Sonosax M2D2 via 2 AES pairs that also offer AES42/SRC btw. 

The unit is quite big, but it is still light as they enclosed a lot of air.

The main reason why you probably won't buy a 4minX is, there is virtually no market! At least last time, I checked.

there are a few in europe that are for sale, but yes, they are fairly rare.  That's interesting information about the different specs on different pairs of inputs.  I'll have to read more.

[tourtelot]

Still nothing bad to say about the preamps in a 788T.  I have 24 inputs of Grace m108, among the top acoustic preamps out there, that I use for multitrack recording.  I used to take 8 channels of Grace out on the "high-end jobs, AES into the 788T as a bit bucket.  On close listening, in the studio, on good monitors, I could not tell any noticeable difference between the 788T pres and the Grace in any of the locations I record in.  I decided to forego the extra weight and only travel the 788T.  The CL12 fader package gives me all the mixer, routing, pans, limiters and a simple EQ that I would ever need for capture.  Way less expensive used than many of your other choices.  As far as reliability, never had the 788T fail in, probably, 15 years.  Can not say the same thing about recording to a DAW.   I put an SSD in it myself; easy-peasy.

 

Shameless plug, but one of the m108s with a Dante card is for sale if anyone is looking. 

 

D.

[Ontariosound]

High quality microphones plugged into a 788T will yield great results time after time.   Be aware of the 48 Volt Line setting if you have high SPL  into a LDC microphone, it will be useful.

[Mungo]

MixPre 10 II with Musician Plugin will serve you well. You get 8 inputs, good audio quality, timecode, mobile design, nice user interface for a fair price. You can even use it as a high quality audio interface for your laptop if you like.

 

I remember recording a symphony orchestra at different locations around 2010, only with Schoeps ORTF setup directly into a 744T. The quality surprised not only me, it was blasting. I would say still better than MixPre, but nowadays I would like to be ready for more tracks.

[Conor]

If you're after good SD pres then those on the 552 are the best they get. Lundahl mic transformers per pre, same as the 302, MM1 and 442.

[Sebi]

Another thing I might add when also considering the 788, is the availability of devices. I can't really speak for the US but at least in my area it's quite easy to get a 2nd machine at a rental house so you can link two devices and record 16 tracks. I'm just guessing that this might apply to your area as well. I also never had any trouble with mine or any other 788s before that.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Trew Audio still rents 788s in the US, and their HQ is in Tennessee, so they'd be easily accessible to grawk.

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

33 minutes ago, Sebi said:

... never had any trouble with mine or any other 788s before that.

 

Not wishing to put a downer on the 788 appreciation society, and I've used it and the 744 quite a bit, and have a 302 (which I hope gets by without another service), I've had knobs fall off the 788, the CL8 and pins break on the TA3s, none due to my own excessive handling (tho I can't vouch for the rest of my dept in the TA3 case).

 

J

[Conor]

18 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

 

Not wishing to put a downer on the 788 appreciation society, and I've used it and the 744 quite a bit, and have a 302 (which I hope gets by without another service), I've had knobs fall off the 788, the CL8 and pins break on the TA3s, none due to my own excessive handling (tho I can't vouch for the rest of my dept in the TA3 case).

 

J

Well, any and every piece of equipment can and will break under the right (wrong?) circumstances. The measure of quality should really be something like, "How often does the unit experience failures under normal operation?". Through this lens, I would rank the 788T very highly (higher than 6-series), although the earlier mixers (not mixer/recorders) would definitely have less critical failure  points, not having all of the extra  functionality and digital processing, interfaces etc

[axel]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:34 PM, grawk said:

the nagra was a wildcard because I do have a gear fetish of sorts and they’re beautiful devices. 

so then try an Aaton Cantar X1 or X2. They came out in 2003/2007. Their developer/designer JP Beauviala acquired his skills at Kudelski, where the famous Nagra machines were produced. He tried to translate the Nagra philosophy into the multitrack world, listenend to the community for a long time and then developed a machine with beautiful mechanics, built like a tank, but with the highest audio standards available. Can be operated over the shoulder, in the rain, blindfolded and with gloves. But best preamps. Just guessing, maybe you would love one of those.

Regarding modern film workflows they are not accurate anymore and service has been discontinued when the original Aaton company shut its doors in 2013. But there are still some people who know how to service and repair them and have some stocks of relevant parts.

[grawk]

10 minutes ago, axel said:

so then try an Aaton Cantar X1 or X2. They came out in 2003/2007. Their developer/designer JP Beauviala acquired his skills at Kudelski, where the famous Nagra machines were produced. He tried to translate the Nagra philosophy into the multitrack world, listenend to the community for a long time and then developed a machine with beautiful mechanics, built like a tank, but with the highest audio standards available. Can be operated over the shoulder, in the rain, blindfolded and with gloves. But best preamps. Just guessing, maybe you would love one of those.

Regarding modern film workflows they are not accurate anymore and service has been discontinued when the original Aaton company shut its doors in 2013. But there are still some people who know how to service and repair them and have some stocks of relevant parts.

i’ll keep my eyes open.

[Maximumbass]

If you have your heart set on a audio for film recorder the to track music,the cantar or 788 would be my pick…I would not characterize either as musical and would chose lots of other gear to record music before these…but if it all has to fit in a little suitcase you won’t be disappointed by the clean tracks you get.

[tourtelot]

I record music on my 788T all the time.  Good music, well-played music, symphony orchestras, church choirs, early music folks.  Some end up on CDs, some Grammy noms.  I have NEVER had a client (or anyone else) say that my recordings weren't "musical".  Bologna!  The 788T preamps are just fine for recording music, never fear.

 

$1400-1600 will get you what you want.

 

D.

[Maximumbass]

Yep,,,the preamps on the 788 sound fine,,,I have recorded lots of bands and they sounded great on the tv when I heard them back..would I choose this 8 track recorder with these preamps if I had other options that most people use to record music…

hell no.

[tourtelot]

Read the OP's first post.  He has a limited budget and he's not building Abbey Road II.

 

So for $1.6k, hell yes.

 

D.

 

PS. FWIW, I have 24 channels of Grace and a JoeCo on a pretty big Dante AoIP network so I know what can be done with more money.

[grawk]

My budget isn't super limited, but certainly a scorpio is out of reach.  The R4+ is my leading candidate still, but I'm flirting with a Nagra VI, and if John Willett's comments about the 4minx still hold up, I'd scoop one of those up for the right price.  In the meantime, my sound devices 552 in front of a zoom f6n lets me continue to record.  

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

If preamps are your priority, Sonosax sounds like the best fit for your needs.  I've never heard one, so can't comment more than that, but I've enjoyed hearing about it on this thread.  I also didn't realize it was so capable under the hood ... 16 tracks and added inputs available if you buy into their other control surfaces.  Good luck!

[AB]

Since I do not think it was mentioned, the Tascam HS-p82 is 8 channels of wonderful mic preamps.  A little bulky by today's standards, but if it is for stationary music recording, it does a great job.  And it is very affordable these days.

 

Nagra VI is also great.  Sonosax is likely the King for the absolute highest quality mic pre in terms of being super clean.  But the Tascam pres are great and euphonic, for lack of a better decription.

[grawk]

just to close the circle I bought a sonosax sx-m2d2 and am in the process of picking up a nagra vi. 

[DHB]

Er, maybe I'm a bit dim, but, er, why the two-input Sonosax as well as the 6-input Nagra VI..?

Where does the output of the (non-recording, purely pre-amp) Sonosax go? Into one or two of the Nagra inputs? ..If so, why?

 

Many thanks.

 

[grawk]

sonosax - gets me the sonosax preamps, digital conversion, and aes and usb outputs, so I can record simultaneously to a digital recorder (spdr or nagra) and my iphone.  Basically, small and flexible, don't always need the big recorder. It's an alternative to the dpa d:vice

 

nagra - 4 preamps, and 2 line or 4 aes inputs.  So with the sonosax I get 6 channels of preamps, or just the nagra, I get 4, plus 2 line level inputs

 

And it lets me compare for myself the sound of the sonosax vs the nagra preamps and converters

Plus, I got the pair of them for less than the R4+.  I wouldn't have been happy with the US version of the r4+ because of the patent issue, and I found a deal on the nagra.