Philip Perkins Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 I have a need to add 3 more mic pres to my 633 for some gigs. I saw that Kortwich makes the M3 for kind of exactly this purpose, can anyone comment on the sound of their mic pres? Similar to that of the 633 or really different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Don't know about the Kortwich one, but Pinknoise in the UK sell such a 633 add-on preamp (slightly more expensive), made for them by Marenius: https://www.marenius.se/audiodesign/sd633.htm . Haven't heard it, but a very reputable manufacturer and seller. There's a video of John from Pinknoise showing the preamp here: https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/14/excellence-in-sound-16-event-pinknoise-sound-devices-633-3-channel-expander/ Cheers, Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Thanks--I answered you on GS. I'm sure the Marinius box is well made but it seems much larger and more complex than what is needed to add 3 mic pres to inputs #4-6 of a 633. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Is the 833 not a good option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Max Hirtenstein said: Is the 833 not a good option? I'm sure it's very nice. But I already have the 633. 833: $4000. Kortwich M3: $325. I have many other things I'd rather spend that extra $3675 on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 iirc neither pinknoise or kortwich have limiters if this of any relevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, daniel said: iirc neither pinknoise or kortwich have limiters if this of any relevance. It's not for the sort of job it would be used on mostly (not doco DX). The 633 has limiters on all channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Philip Perkins said: I'm sure it's very nice. But I already have the 633. 833: $4000. Kortwich M3: $325. I have many other things I'd rather spend that extra $3675 on! can't argue with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Philip Perkins said: It's not for the sort of job it would be used on mostly (not doco DX). The 633 has limiters on all channels. The 633 lacks analogue limiters on channels 4/5/6, one of many many many reasons to get the 833 instead 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: The 633 lacks analogue limiters on channels 4/5/6, one of many many many reasons to get the 833 instead 😉 Off topic; it appears to me that so many people see (analogue) limiters as a deal maker or breaker these days. All I can say is if that indeed is so important, are you actually proper gain staging on set? How hot are you running your mics? Also, since we typically (not this topic, but again, sorry for being slightly off topic..) run 1 or mics wired and the rest wireless, the limiting and gain staging has to happen in the TX, and if a limiter in a recorder is crucial for you in those occasions, your settings are really "far from home". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Vincent R. said: Off topic; it appears to me that so many people see (analogue) limiters as a deal maker or breaker these days. All I can say is if that indeed is so important, are you actually proper gain staging on set? How hot are you running your mics? Also, since we typically (not this topic, but again, sorry for being slightly off topic..) run 1 or mics wired and the rest wireless, the limiting and gain staging has to happen in the TX, and if a limiter in a recorder is crucial for you in those occasions, your settings are really "far from home". Nicely put. 633 far from being obsolete in the context of recording speech for motion pictures. 5 hours ago, IronFilm said: The 633 lacks analogue limiters on channels 4/5/6, one of many many many reasons to get the 833 instead 😉 😩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Regardless of the importance of limiters, analog or digital, I think IronDave gets at a useful point: On the 633, channels 4/5/6 don't have prefader limiters, only post-fader. That's a useful reminder. Beyond that, I can't recall the specifics, so here's a bit from the 633 user manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Thanks for trying to save me from not having prefade limiters on my 633 chans 4-6. I come from the time when no portable mixing or recording devices had such things, so you can't scare me! Like I said, this rig is not for doco-reality-screaming-actor type recording, in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 All good, I just wanted to correct that bit of false info being shared which implied the 633 has limiters across all its channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 52 minutes ago, IronFilm said: All good, I just wanted to correct that bit of false info being shared which implied the 633 has limiters across all its channels. The 633 does have limiters on all channels. Just so we're clear and on the same page, my reading of the 633 manual is that it provides input limiters across ALL channels, but inputs 1-3 have pre- AND post-fader limiters, while 4-6 only have post-fader limiters. See the clip from the manual in response #12 a bit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: All good, I just wanted to correct that bit of false info being shared which implied the 633 has limiters across all its channels. The only false info here is about the 633 NOT having limiters across all channels. It does have them, on all 6. As Jim says, ch 1-3 pre+post limiters, ch 4-6 post limiters only. I use these all the time. A goal of good recording is to stay out of artificial or semi-automatic gain control in any case. This is called "mixing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Jim Feeley said: So is that the correct terminology? A post-fade input limiter? Input really does sound like it’s part of the preamp or adc. But once it’s post fader it’s not really part of the input anymore. Or is it? Sorry, this once more is irrelevant to the original question. But I was just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Constantin said: So is that the correct terminology? A post-fade input limiter? Input really does sound like it’s part of the preamp or adc. But once it’s post fader it’s not really part of the input anymore. Or is it? Yeah, when someone in casual speech says "has a limiter" they don't usually mean post fader and operating purely in the digital domain (as once it has clipped, it has clipped). Imagine if all the limiters on anything (be it a 788T / Scorpio / F8n / 888 / 633 / or whatever) worked identical to the so called "limiters" on channels 4/5/6 of a 633! And the manufacturer tried to claim it has great "limiters"? The outrage! And that is what I was attempting to express, perhaps not too well though. But sure, if someone wants to get all word lawyerly and argue the pedantics, then yes, technically the 633 has "limiters" (with air quotes) for all the inputs as per the manual. I knew that already before this thread started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 I haven't heard the Kortwich thing but I will say everything they make is rock solid and great quality. Berlin manufacturing. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 11 hours ago, IronFilm said: Yeah, when someone in casual speech says "has a limiter" they don't usually mean post fader and operating purely in the digital domain (as once it has clipped, it has clipped). Imagine if all the limiters on anything (be it a 788T / Scorpio / F8n / 888 / 633 / or whatever) worked identical to the so called "limiters" on channels 4/5/6 of a 633! And the manufacturer tried to claim it has great "limiters"? The outrage! And that is what I was attempting to express, perhaps not too well though. But sure, if someone wants to get all word lawyerly and argue the pedantics, then yes, technically the 633 has "limiters" (with air quotes) for all the inputs as per the manual. I knew that already before this thread started. There is nothing "lawyerly" about exactly what SD states re: limiters in the manual for the 633. I don't find reading manuals "pedantic", I find doing so (and then testing the gear in question) necessary for accurate and informed use of the equipment I make my living with. I invite you to engage with SD about whether their "so-called" 633 limiters are real limiters? I find my "so called" 633 limiters limit quite well, and usefully, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 Phillip, Did you ever get the Kortwich Preamp? I am considering the Kortwich Preamp6 to use with my 688. Do you like how it sounds? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 I didn't get it, the use I had for that prospective 6 preamp portable rig (portable music recording) morphed into something different needing more tracks, so I passed on the Kortwich and went to a different recorder entirely. It still seems like a cool thing, but as ever I find that I either need just a few pres or more than 6 so I doubt I'll ever go that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted September 11, 2021 Report Share Posted September 11, 2021 I also use my 688 for portable battery powered music recording. So having the 6 extra mic pres gives me a total of 12 mic inputs and is very useful. Anything more than the 12 inputs will move me into using Reaper and my Digital board. I am going to take a chance and buy the Kortwich MicPres even though I have yet to find anyone who has actually used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Audio Daddyo said: I also use my 688 for portable battery powered music recording. So having the 6 extra mic pres gives me a total of 12 mic inputs and is very useful. Anything more than the 12 inputs will move me into using Reaper and my Digital board. I am going to take a chance and buy the Kortwich MicPres even though I have yet to find anyone who has actually used them. I needed more pres for my current DC-music rig too, but found I liked the big-iron sound of an old 552 on direct outs better than other boxes-'o-pres I could afford and that were small enough and DC-powered for this purpose.... I know, 5, not 6 chans but I have other 1-chan pres I can use with this rig if that last input even needs to be other than line-level. I'll be very interested in your take on the Kortwich box, esp how it sounds vs your SD pres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted May 3, 2023 Report Share Posted May 3, 2023 Bumping this thread--- any field experience with the kortwhich box? thx. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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