Direction of Sound Devices product line

[Giuseppe Vitellaro]

It seems that Sound Devices has made the decision to trim down its product line a bit with regards to those bulletproof mixers and audio tools they used to make. Anyone else wish they would come out with some new models?

 

Don’t get me wrong—the 8 series are serious tools for serious jobs, and the price point of the MixPre series is fantastic. The Audio Ltd. purchase made sense. But I find myself pining for a MixPre-D version 2. Or a 302. Simple, rugged, excellent sound, just the right amount of features. Often the right tool for the job when a mixer-recorder is too much.

[Johnny Karlsson]

If you want a 302, why not just get a 302? There are many available used for really good prices on eBay etc.

[Jim Feeley]

I still dig and periodically use my 302. Maybe drop a line to SD to see if they still service them. I'd guess they do and if they don't perhaps someone else probably does. And then buy one. 

 

But ya, it would be cool to see some basic utility tools from SD or a similar company. Maybe Ambient or Kortwich? (Doesn't seem to be in Zaxcom's world, but perhaps I'm wrong) Maybe something already exists or we'll see something new at NAB?

[Barry M]

I inquired about 302 service in late 2021, and the flat fee was $295US plus parts, though they did recommend local Toronto usual suspects as a first step for speed and to avoid shipping costs. It turned out to be cheaper to buy another used, but didn't seem unreasonable.

 

Here's what SD said about the send it to the mothership option at the time.

 

Quote

Work directly with Sound Devices. If you decide to take this route, please start your request here: https://service.sounddevices.com/contact-support/

While repair costs may vary per reseller, Sound Devices has a flat labor fee of US$295.00 for the 302. Additional costs include parts and shipping. However, if you pre-approve use of up to $100 in parts, we will reduce the final cost by $40. This does not mean we will use $100 in parts, but pre-approval will reduce the chance of requiring an estimate first.

 

[Giuseppe Vitellaro]

1 hour ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

If you want a 302, why not just get a 302? There are many available used for really good prices on eBay etc.

 

Well admittedly I'm more just opining about "the market." I have no qualms about buying used—probably half my gear is second-hand. But sometimes it's easier/more sensible to just buy new, especially if you're trying to spec out a purchase for someone else. Plus I suspect the latest and greatest SD preamps would outperform their older designs.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

1 hour ago, Barry M said:

I inquired about 302 service in late 2021, and the flat fee was $295US plus parts, though they did recommend local Toronto usual suspects as a first step for speed and to avoid shipping costs. It turned out to be cheaper to buy another used, but didn't seem unreasonable.

I had a similar experience with my 442.  SD's flat rate to look at it was more costly than replacing it with a used model.  I ended up servicing it for about half of the flat rate cost at Cramped Attic in Vancouver.

[codyman]

Personally I wish there was an option between the MixPre 10t II and the 888.  Don't get me wrong, they both sound great but I feel like between the ~$2k of the 10t and the almost $10k of the 888, too bad there isn't say a $4k option that has 8 channels (preferably with 8 faders too), dual media, and AES inputs.  If anything I'm keeping my eye out maybe for a used Sonosax but those are hard to come by.

[JonG]

15 minutes ago, codyman said:

Personally I wish there was an option between the MixPre 10t II and the 888.  Don't get me wrong, they both sound great but I feel like between the ~$2k of the 10t and the almost $10k of the 888, too bad there isn't say a $4k option that has 8 channels (preferably with 8 faders too), dual media, and AES inputs.  If anything I'm keeping my eye out maybe for a used Sonosax but those are hard to come by.

You could get a used 788T. They’re still bulletproof. Mine hasn’t left the cart since I purchased it new in 2011. Yes I’ve bought other devices since, but I have had no need to get rid of it or replace it completely. 

[codyman]

15 minutes ago, JonG said:

You could get a used 788T. They’re still bulletproof.

That's what's on my cart too haha

I guess I should have emphasized that I like the footprint / weight of the MixPre for bag stuff.  I did throw the 788t in a bag recently (had a boom op though) and it was totally manageable despite mixing 8 channels with it (walk and talks on this hiking thing), but also at the same time, my back isn't getting any younger either...

[Johnny Karlsson]

2 hours ago, codyman said:

Personally I wish there was an option between the MixPre 10t II and the 888.  Don't get me wrong, they both sound great but I feel like between the ~$2k of the 10t and the almost $10k of the 888, too bad there isn't say a $4k option that has 8 channels (preferably with 8 faders too), dual media, and AES inputs.  If anything I'm keeping my eye out maybe for a used Sonosax but those are hard to come by.

That would be the 833. Slightly north of the $4K price point now, but coupled with a $200 SL Mixface, you got 8 faders.

[codyman]

1 minute ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

That would be the 833. Slightly north of the $4K price point now, but coupled with a $200 SL Mixface, you got 8 faders.

$5950 is the going rate for the 833 these days.  Has shot up dramatically since 2020.

[Johnny Karlsson]

1 hour ago, codyman said:

$5950 is the going rate for the 833 these days.  Has shot up dramatically since 2020.

Oooh, yeah you’re right.
I have to say it’s great though. The flexibility as well as the sound of the 8-series really makes it far superior to any of the earlier series imho.

 

But yeah, if you don’t need any of the “bells and whistles”, or even onboard recording, then a 302 or a 442 are still some seriously reliable mixers.

[Philip Perkins]

I assume the reason that SD doesn't make non-recording mixers like 302, 552, 442 and the non digital MixPre is that hardly anyone wants to buy them new, and as a small co. they can only make a certain number of different products at once.  I'm impressed that they will still service oldies like what I use (old analog SD stuff) at all.  Yeah, their service is expensive, but they have the parts and the expertise.   Only an experienced soundie would understand the utility of a 302 these days--I use mine all the time for one task or another, and would definitely replace it if I lost it.  But a newb is better off having a current MixPre as their first and only device.

[Johnny Karlsson]

Yep,

 

and also, when you send something in to SD for service - even if it’s for a specific reason, they will go through the whole unit and replace worn input and output jacks, pots, even the “golf pegs” to bring everything up to factory specs. In my experience, it has been great every time.

 

 

[VASI]

That is a good question for Audiotonix.

[Tim Norris]

On 4/4/2023 at 6:19 PM, codyman said:

Personally I wish there was an option between the MixPre 10t II and the 888.  Don't get me wrong, they both sound great but I feel like between the ~$2k of the 10t and the almost $10k of the 888, too bad there isn't say a $4k option that has 8 channels (preferably with 8 faders too), dual media, and AES inputs.  If anything I'm keeping my eye out maybe for a used Sonosax but those are hard to come by.

 

I have been having the same feeling since putting a new Scorpio/SL2 into service. It was the logical upgrade from a 688/SL6. The MixPre 10 ll is inadequate for ENG work, which is all I do. I consider it to be a high end toy. The Scorpio is an amazing machine but has features I do not need and may never get around to using. As amazing as it is, it is not the perfect ENG mixer. Many of us are buying into the 8 Series because we feel a need to and not because it adequately meets our needs. There are features I would like to delete or disable.

 

I bought the first version of the MixPre after talking with Jim Koomar (I think) in the parking lot at Fletcher Chicago when he was first peddling them. I retired my Cooper CS 104 when the 442 was first available with more usable features than I had on my beloved Cooper. I have upgraded to each of their new mixers since.

 

I believe it was us working in the ENG world who desired and invented many of the features of these modern portable machines... Peter Engh in particular. Sound Devices put everything we wanted into a reliable package. With the 8 series machines, I feel they are abandoning those of us who gave them initial success...

 

All that said I'm pretty happy with my Scorpio and for the third time, I think this could be my last mixer... unless they come up with an 8-10 channel simpler "Scorpio" with 8-10 mic/line/AES faders and the power outs of the SL6. I was very disappointed to feel the need to add an Audioroot BDS with three switches to my bag to partially restore the functionality of the power outs of the SL6. Perhaps the rumored SL3 will do that.

 

I would love to get my pan pots back, too!

 

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

 

[Philip Perkins]

Yes to pan pots.  And yes to something that sounds good and is less fiddly for those of us not mixing Big Movies off Big Carts.

[codyman]

6 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

Yes to pan pots.  And yes to something that sounds good and is less fiddly for those of us not mixing Big Movies off Big Carts.

Almost need a 788t Mark II.  Metal housing, dual media, digital inputs, keep the ye olden LED VU meter lights and slap on the LCD screen from the MixPre 10t MKII to "modernize" it.  I'm arm chair dreaming over here but I wouldn't mind that!

[ProSound]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:01 PM, codyman said:

$5950 is the going rate for the 833 these days.  Has shot up dramatically since 2020.

I am sure glad I got one at the beginning for $3995 

[Derek H]

2 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Yes to pan pots.  And yes to something that sounds good and is less fiddly for those of us not mixing Big Movies off Big Carts.

Maybe snap up a used 664 or 688 (or two) for cheap, send it to SD for refurbishment and that would provide you with reliable, non-fiddly ENG bliss for years to come. 

[OB1]

51 minutes ago, Derek H said:

Maybe snap up a used 664 or 688 (or two) for cheap, send it to SD for refurbishment and that would provide you with reliable, non-fiddly ENG bliss for years to come. 

 

Shhhh. Let's not drive up the 6x prices like the 8x...

[Philip Perkins]

5 hours ago, codyman said:

Almost need a 788t Mark II.  Metal housing, dual media, digital inputs, keep the ye olden LED VU meter lights and slap on the LCD screen from the MixPre 10t MKII to "modernize" it.  I'm arm chair dreaming over here but I wouldn't mind that!

Triple media!

[Mungo]

In my European ENG world this has been discussed for a long time. There are many guys who are hired as camera assistants, not as sound guys from time to time, so they need a lightweight reliable tool which doesn't draw their entire mind attention.

We live in the tradition of SQN-3 and 4s, so when the 302 came out, it was a real improvement for good price. And way better than the competitors of that time (like Shure, Wendt ...) But ever since, there hasn't been any real successor of the 302. The world has turned - there's more wireless, so internal ISO recording is now a must, but the other requirements remained more or less the same. Many people have been watching out for alternatives and end up with MixPres (and struggle) or 833s that probably never will be refinanced.

 

In my opinion, SD should design something like the Zoom F4 with the build quality of the 402/552 for 3k$ max. Small, light weight, 4 channels, internal poly wav recording, good preamps and an output board with real full sized balanced line outputs for wired and wireless camera hops and additional unbalanced o/p. Internal timecode, but with versatile BNC connectors. Easy to use, not too many options and real knobs instead of touchscreen. (And perhaps some simple one button "muff sound eliminating EQ"  for concealed lavs (Att at 400Hz, Hi-Shelf above 1500Hz)).

 

The 833 is way too expensive and even too complicated for some people and some markets. The 633 was a good approach, but too pricey and anyway been discontinued.

[BAB414]

I'm reminded of Apple. Keep coming out with new stuff and discontinue the old stuff (which works great) so eventually we feel the need to upgrade whether we want to or not. I was doing just fine with my 664/CL-12. They went ahead and discontinued both just to ensure more sales of their newer product line. I upgraded to a Scorpio partially to help reduce my taxes but also somewhat out of pressure to have the latest and greatest, despite not needing half of those tracks and features. I suspect the same will happen to the 8 series line eventually. I miss the old SD.

[Derek H]

The 633 is the perfect small ENG mixer-recorder. I think it was a mistake on their part to discontinue it. 
 

I think it would have been smart to keep the 633 in production and then pare the 8-series down to just the 888 and the Scorpio. 633 is the right price point for that work.