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Mirror

Preference for Zaxcom, preference for Sound Devices, Choice is good

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I'm a big fan of Zaxcom's Deva and Fusion BUT I'm thinking hard of jumping ships to Sound Devices.

Here are my reasons;

 

1) Glen Sanders total lack of interest in upgrading the Deva to be compatible to newer hardware components.  The Deva can only accept hard drives that are PATA.  PATA drives are outdated and are getting hard to find.  Not only that but the Deva only reconizes less then 160 gigs of the drive, no matter how large the drive is.  Sanders also refuses to update the firewire 400 that is used for external drives. Finding a firewire 400 CF card reader is not easy these days.

 

2) The appeal of the Deva/Fusion is it's intuitive approach to menu navigation using a touch screen. After a 3 minute tutorial you could be quite proficient with the machine.  If you haven't use it for months on end you don't have to refer to cheat sheets to get you back to speed.  SD's method of scrolling through over a hundred menu items to get the one you want and then having to scroll-click-scroll-click and then hold down the secret combination of buttons seemed disdainful. HOWEVER, Sanders new emphasizes on the Nomad and MAXX embraces the secret combinations and scrolling to get to where you want.  He has abandoned the user friendly formula that made Zaxcom desirable. 

 

3) Sanders doesn't want to hear what you have to say, he only wants to hear what he already thinks.  Suggesting something to him is like talking to a wall.  There is no, "I see what you're saying" from him, only, " Yeah, but...".  I am not the only sound mixer to voice this disturbing trait about him.   One small example of this is when I asked him why he used a blister button for the record button on the Nomad/MAXX and why this button wasn't a dedicated button. Of all the buttons you push on a recorder this one is the most important and a mixer in the heat of battle shouldn't have to worry if that button is in record or TC or whatnot. Sanders gave me a "Yeah, but.." answer.  He's never been in the situations we've been in so you'd think he'd listen a little more. And, as I said, I'm not the only one to say this.

 

4) Since Sound Devices came out with the CL-WIFI it has made some of the shot to shot duties that were so miserable on their recorders bearable.  This interface has made it more like the DEVA/Fusion intuitive touch screen.  This along with faster mirroring and interest in keeping up with modern hardware is winning me over.

 

I'm in the market for another recorder in the next few months and if Zaxcom doesn't address these issues promptly then I'm done with them.  I use Lectro wireless so zaxnet is a moot issue.

 

Mirror

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Less ad hominem, more hard experience and suggestions for the machines.  No one is obligated to design a machine exactly the way you want it unless you hired them to do so, right?  They do a combo of what they like, what the majority of their fans like, and what they can afford to do at the machine's price point.  As users we basically get to take it or leave it, I'd suggest doing so while aknowledging good intentions all around...

 

Aren't there PATA>SATA adapters for internal drives?

 

philp

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Amusing read......

 

 

I especially enjoyed this part...

 

"if Zaxcom doesn't address these issues promptly then I'm done with them."

 

 

 

Don' hold your breath..... LOL

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I endorse mirror's opinion to a certain extent in that while making great strides in advancing the technology of digital sound recording Glen has abandoned the attention necessary to upgrade some of his earlier successes like the Deva V. I've never been a fan of Zaxcom wireless, but that's a combination of brand loyalty to Lectrosonics and the admiration I have for their customer service and how generous they are with their loan outs to me and guys like me that teach occasionally. I'm looking at getting an SD 788 because of several reasons that have already been stated here in numerous forum sections and posts and don't need repetition. Taste and preference is individual and although Zaxcom make fine products and I've used one for many years I'm switching too, but for slightly different reasons. I like Glen and his crew have always been very helpful but they lag a little behind more established manufacturers in customer service in my opinion. I've never dealt with Sound Devices but I hear good things. We'll see. Mirror's issue with the SD menu is a non issue for me as I find it easy to navigate through it once you memorize the appropriate number of the menu choice being sought.

All things being equal It's a great time to be a mixer with all the great tools available to us and the choices we have in so many equipment types. Too bad that so much work is leaving L.A. for other tax friendly destinations, but if you live in one of those other tax friendly destinations then you're in great shape, but that's another story......

Mick

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Dear Mirror:

Way too many words, in my opinion, to tell us all that you would prefer to not use Zaxcom gear. If by stating your reasons you wish to alter Zaxcom's product development, marketing, support or overall business plan, announcing that you will not be using Zaxcom products doesn't seem to be the proper stance to take. Although Zaxcom has been incredibly responsive to it's users, making changes, adding features and so forth, it is highly unlikely that your suggestions will be accepted favorably. If, on the other hand, you just want to vent to us all here the things you don't like about Zaxcom, that's fine but isn't very useful since so many of the things you say negatively about Zaxcom products are just non-issues for the hundreds of people using the gear every day. Simple example from one of your complaints is the lack of support for newer hard drives --- why is this an issue? I have been using the original 160 gb internal hard drives in my Devas for the last 12 years (different drives over the years, of course) why should I care, it's an internal drive?

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I know what exactly my rec/tc button does, in unshiffted mode its the record button In shifted mode its time code, what's so hard to understand about that ;-) You have used a Nomad right? Menu navigation is easy, the menu system on sound devices still gives me nightmares. As a young mixer I had the choice of any product I wanted. When I sold my 552 the nomad was the only option for me, now I can't imagine working without the nomad and zax wireless. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

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I have never seen a thread started to tell people what or how I think. There are many things about it that are just wrong.

 

#1 The Deva is a very old design that has stood the test of time. It was started back around the year 2000. Updating it to do what we want it to do or need it to do is just not possible from many aspects. It was of course updated once to allow CF card use and 16 track recording. Do not mistake the fact that we do not talk about product development publicly (same as most companies) as a" total lack of interest in upgrading the Deva" . We can neither conform nor deny any aspect of product development until we are ready to talk about it.

 

#2 We love our touch screen interface. It just was not the right thing for the Nomad or MAXX. If we were to make a product in the future we would use whatever interface made sense. Direct brain implants and voice synthesizers are both bad ideas. ;-)

 

#3 I do not think there is anyone in this industry that listens to users more than I do. (yea i'm going there) Not a day goes by that I do not talk to and seek advice from our customer base and dealers. Do not mistake the fact that not all ideas are good or practical and will not be implemented as an indication that I am not listening to or considering all suggestions that come along.  Our record of innovative products and features should be proof enough of that.

 

 

Zaxcoms product development decisions are not based solely on me. Decisions regarding product development are based on discussions between Myself, Howy, Colleen, our dealers and our customer base. I do not know who you are Mirror but I do invite you to call me at the office to go over any concerns you might have. I would also appreciate it if you are going to call me that you post your real name here so that I know who you are when and if you do call. 

 

On a personal note you may call me Glenn. "Sanders" seems so impersonal.

 

Glenn Sanders

President Zaxcom Inc.

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I have not always been a fan of how Glenn is representing his company here, as I've said before. The use of superlatives is not exactly modest and contains too much boasting.

However, the response above was mostly free from that and it felt like a very dignified reply. I for one was happy to read it.

On a practical level: i could never understand this constant SD vs Zax debate. Both make fine products, find the one that fits you best. I own several SD products (at first, I didn't even know of Zaxcom) and switching to a Nomad now makes no sense. In a boader sense, both recorders (788 and Nomad) are way too similar to justify a switch in either direction. Still, I'm hoping for a new Deva. or a bigger 788.

But I use Zax wireless, as well as Lectro, and all these guys play well together.

Luckily, none of them ever refused to work with one of the others

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I just bought a Nomad 12 with their wireless and I am in love with it. I believe it is a new approach to our industry and isn't the same recorder as everyone on the market. I pretty much know how to use every SD product out there and I believe if someone knows one of their devices they know them all. Don't get me wrong they are GREAT machines and I love them. I just love Zaxcoms approach. The record button, so what, I hold the TC button down two seconds and it records. I see no issue with it and Thomas Popps videos on youtube are great to learn the gear. It is a whole new set of gear that I am enjoying to learn. Everyday I kinda find something new with the recorder. To me Zaxcom is the Apple of computers. They come up with great new ideas and they put them out there. There are some things I would love to see them do, such as waterproof wireless or a phone app, but it doesn't bother me that they aren't doing everything like SD because they are doing things that are so much better in my opinion.

Since I just noticed Glenn just replied, I don't want to change what I wrote, but I would love for you to make an app but destroy SDs app. out of the water.

Thanks for the fun products.

Brenton

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I know who mirror is. I know he always attacks. Why? That I don't know. Both recorders are great. 100 times better than the old days of the beloved Nagra. Just choose the one you think is better and leave the personal attack out of it. We are lucky to have these and future great products to choose from these two great American companies.

CrewC

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To me Zaxcom is the Apple of computers. They come up with great new ideas and they put them out there.

Since I just noticed Glenn just replied, I don't want to change what I wrote, but I would love for you to make an app but destroy SDs app. out of the water.

Brenton

Apple have a better GUI, though (sorry Glenn :P).

Zaxcom haven't, and probably won't make an iPhone app as the only way you can connect (in the manner that is needed to control and receive info from an external, non-Apple device) to the iPhone is via WiFi protocol (like the CL-Wifi from Sound Devices) which Zaxnet is not.

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"I would love for you to make an app but destroy SDs app. out of the water."

 

OK, one more time in English...... please....  Destroy their phone app?... what....?

Sorry i thought it was in english. I would love for you (glenn) to make an app, but it destroys SDs app out of the water. I forgot a word. I didn't know I had to put phone before the word app. Thought app is a well known word for people who have phones.

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I guess a guy can't express an opinion around here.  These were just my thoughts as to why I might change recorders.  I didn't attack Glenn Sanders personally, I expressed my thoughts on how he personally responds to user input. I think he's a nice guy actually, I like his products except he seems to be deviating from what attracted me to the products in the first place.  

 

This was not an attack piece - just an opinion.

 

Crew - I doubt that you know me because I've never met you.

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Brenton,

 

Is this what you're trying to say;

 

"I would love for you (Zaxcom) to make an app that would blow SD's out of the water!" ?

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No one is stopping you from expressing an opinion --- you need to be prepared to be challenged, however, when you make statements that are personal attacks, second hand reporting, or just meaningless conjecture based not on facts.

 

 

“Glen Sanders total lack of interest in upgrading the Deva to be compatible to newer hardware components.”
 
This is not opinion, this is your incorrect assumption of what’s in Glenn Sander’s head. How do you know what Glenn Sanders is interested in?
 
This is not a brilliant observation that a machine that was designed over 12 years ago will not be compatible with newer hardware components. But again, the Deva has served us well for all those years.
 
“Sanders doesn't want to hear what you have to say, he only wants to hear what he already thinks.  Suggesting something to him is like talking to a wall.”
 
This does seem quite personal to me.
 
“HOWEVER, Sanders new emphasizes on the Nomad and MAXX embraces the secret combinations and scrolling to get to where you want.  He has abandoned the user friendly formula that made Zaxcom desirable.” 
 
Hasn’t abandoned anything --- Nomad and MAXX are different machines to Deva. Again, maybe things have become less desirable for YOU but that doesn’t make it necessarily bad or undesirable to others.

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Sorry i thought it was in english. I would love for you (glenn) to make an app, but it destroys SDs app out of the water. I forgot a word. I didn't know I had to put phone before the word app. Thought app is a well known word for people who have phones.

It just made little sense... Why would anyone want to destroy an app out of the water? and yes, I am familiar with an app... ;)

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No one is stopping you from expressing an opinion --- you need to be prepared to be challenged, however, when you make statements that are personal attacks, second hand reporting, or just meaningless conjecture based not on facts.

 

 

“Glen Sanders total lack of interest in upgrading the Deva to be compatible to newer hardware components.”
 
This is not opinion, this is your incorrect assumption of what’s in Glenn Sander’s head. How do you know what Glenn Sanders is interested in?
 
This is not a brilliant observation that a machine that was designed over 12 years ago will not be compatible with newer hardware components. But again, the Deva has served us well for all those years.
 
“Sanders doesn't want to hear what you have to say, he only wants to hear what he already thinks.  Suggesting something to him is like talking to a wall.”
 
This does seem quite personal to me.
 
“HOWEVER, Sanders new emphasizes on the Nomad and MAXX embraces the secret combinations and scrolling to get to where you want.  He has abandoned the user friendly formula that made Zaxcom desirable.” 
 
Hasn’t abandoned anything --- Nomad and MAXX are different machines to Deva. Again, maybe things have become less desirable for YOU but that doesn’t make it necessarily bad or undesirable to others.

 

 

1) “Glen Sanders total lack of interest in upgrading the Deva to be compatible to newer hardware components.”

 

I've gone to dealers and asked them if Zaxcom is going to upgrade the weak links in DEVA (PATA drives and firewire 400).  The dealers response was that they've asked Zaxcom the exact question and they've said nothing. Not even a "we're looking into it" or "we can't mention anything about it at this time".  What's a boy to think except that Glenn isn't interested.

 

2) “Sanders doesn't want to hear what you have to say, he only wants to hear what he already thinks.  Suggesting something to him is like talking to a wall.”

 

I was speaking about how he responds to suggestions about his product line.  When I've talked to him about other things  he's much more interesting than a wall.  Like I said, I like him personally, so this was not a personal attack.  Please keep my points in the proper perspective and not let emotions rule your thinking when talking business.

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Anonymity has its assets and its liabilities. Mirror has frequently touted the rights and benefits of his anonymity; protecting him from what he states would be persecution for his political beliefs. Now he must accept that his anonymous complaints sound somewhat hollow, or are lacking in gravity.

What "other mixers" will stand next to you ?

Reveal yourself, commit to your ethics, be free of the mask and breathe deeply in the risk of the "Other". You'll survive, my brother.

best

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"Crew - I doubt that you know me because I've never met you." mirror.

 

I should of said I know your name and position in the biz. That certainly does not mean I know you. I'm sure you are a fine, complex human like all of us. I basically know you from our jwsound group. Seems attacking more times than not. 

The main thing is this thread is a rant more than a topic. SD n Zax are both good prods. Sleep well.

CrewC

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Anonymity has its assets and its liabilities. Mirror has frequently touted the rights and benefits of his anonymity; protecting him from what he states would be persecution for his political beliefs. Now he must accept that his anonymous complaints sound somewhat hollow, or are lacking in gravity.

What "other mixers" will stand next to you ?

Reveal yourself, commit to your ethics, be free of the mask and breathe deeply in the risk of the "Other". You'll survive, my brother.

best

 

You really want me to name other mixers?

 

Hollow complaints?  You must not be a DEVA user otherwise you would know what I'm talking about.  Sure, everything works fine now but when you go shopping for PATA drives and firewire 400 card readers that the DEVA will accept you start to see the train wreck that's coming.

 

atheisticmystic, I would suggest you have a dog in the fight before you jump in mouth ablazing.

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"Crew - I doubt that you know me because I've never met you." mirror.

 

I should of said I know your name and position in the biz. That certainly does not mean I know you. I'm sure you are a fine, complex human like all of us. I basically know you from our jwsound group. Seems attacking more times than not. 

The main thing is this thread is a rant more than a topic. SD n Zax are both good prods. Sleep well.

CrewC

 

 

Rant or Opinion.  I guess the perspective of this is if you have a bone to pick.  

 

You seem to have an itch to pick one with me.

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Just see the inconsistency between claiming that your position is supported by others, while remaining anonymous.

 

You can't see the folly of bringing other mixers names into a discussion like this, without prior consent, on a public forum?

 

Please, you're not a DEVA owner. Stay out of this.  Your only goal is to stir the pot.

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