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Small sound cart: Power Distro - advice


CjacksonSound
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Good afternoon - I'm building a small sound cart set up:  Ive been talking to American Sound recordist Jim Keany

Building around the idea of been able to quickly break the bag away from the cart with minimal Fuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sNVnqQ8p7E (starts talking about power around 8.10)

 

As you can see my rig is a bit smaller but very similar.

 

Bag:

-An 833 (SL-2 - 2x src's - 2 x Betso Sharks) G4 Coms

 

Cart:

Icon M+ Controll Surface

Black magic Duo monitors

LED light strip

Usb Hub

 

My problem at the moment is Power distribution: It looks like Jim is using his PSC life bat - into a AR VmDbox then out to the bag and various components. 

 

I've been talking to PSC about using their Tripple play distrobox with their life battery but he replied with:
"Both the Large 4 Pin XLR and the mIni 4 Pin XLRs are wired with the pins doubled up.  Each of the mini XLR inputs on the Triple play is only good for about 7 amps, so if you want to supply more current than that, you should have a cable made that has a full size XLR 4 pin on one end and have it “Y” out to mini XLR 4 pins on the other end."

 

This leaves me a bit stumped - ive attached a block diagram of how I would like this set you to function but as is obvious by now, I'm a bit out mydepth are Power Distro.  

 

 

Thanks for your time and any suggestions are welcome

 

IMG_5579 2.JPG

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I'm sure Ron would make the cable for you. Wouldn't be too hard. you could use two pieces of  round 20AWG  2-conductor cable into a single XLR4M and one TA4 on each tail. If Ron has the pins 1+2 and 3+4 wired in parallel and you're feeding two of the inputs then in theory this kind of setup would be good for 14 amps. XLR 4--pins are rated for 10A per pin btw but if he's "doubling up" the pins then you can use it for more.

 

7 amps is kind of a lot on it's own. How much current will this rig really be pulling? The 833 and the video monitor are probably the two main concerns. Maybe 2A each? Maybe not even that much. The wireless and icon shouldn't draw that much. I'd get some kind of meter so you have a better understanding of your actual draw. If you really do need more than 7A you may be better off with a heavier-duty cart power solution.

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ahh nice - thats handy having 6 amps per output.

 

 

20 hours ago, Derek H said:

I'm sure Ron would make the cable for you. Wouldn't be too hard. you could use two pieces of  round 20AWG  2-conductor cable into a single XLR4M and one TA4 on each tail. If Ron has the pins 1+2 and 3+4 wired in parallel and you're feeding two of the inputs then in theory this kind of setup would be good for 14 amps. XLR 4--pins are rated for 10A per pin btw but if he's "doubling up" the pins then you can use it for more.

 

7 amps is kind of a lot on it's own. How much current will this rig really be pulling? The 833 and the video monitor are probably the two main concerns. Maybe 2A each? Maybe not even that much. The wireless and icon shouldn't draw that much. I'd get some kind of meter so you have a better understanding of your actual draw. If you really do need more than 7A you may be better off with a heavier-duty cart power solution.

Ive actually been speaking to Ron and he's been super helpful and essentially said the same as you here.

 

we worked out its just over 6amps total

 

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On 2/14/2021 at 12:58 AM, nevo said:

I’ve got a new psc euro life distro box here if you need one

im pulling 6.5 amps on my cart and float charge a lipo4  batts in small pelicans .... works a treat

Hi Nevo - they are a very powerful solution but they seemed to be designed for the PSC Euro carts - I’m currently building a modified ScMini - trying to keep everything in the bag (essential) and the monitors / mixer in the cart.

A4544B79-F6A7-4F06-8C00-DD3FD1723CF7.jpeg

3A5B4B74-4781-49DD-8A62-EFD6CB39DB87.png

On 2/13/2021 at 1:56 PM, Trey LaCroix said:

My small cart consists of a pelican battery and a Remote Audio Hotbox. Works fantastic!

Hi Tery- I’ve seen these and they look like a decent solution - what do you have it loaded up with if you find mine me asking.

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Ah, cart building.  Always a fun time for me.

 

Question.  Are you really pulling 6-7 amps of DC on such a small cart?  I never pulled more than 3A on a full-fledged feature (stage) cart with a Yammy 01V96, an inverter, a Fostex DV824, a 788T, a Mac Mini, two monitors, two Venues, two Comtek 216 transmitters, etc, etc.  What's so current hungry?

 

D.

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Some years back I was working a project where Gary Graver was the DP. I was setting up the espresso machine but the electricians blocked my access to power, telling me they were maxed out. I went over to give Gary the bad news that, due to limited power, I couldn't supply him with a cappuccino. Without missing a beat, Gary pointed to a light in the overhead grid and ordered that it be switched off to accommodate the coffee machine. A man with his priorities in order.

 

David

 

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20 hours ago, CjacksonSound said:

Hi Tery- I’ve seen these and they look like a decent solution - what do you have it loaded up with if you find mine me asking.

Currently an 833, an SL-2 with two SRCs, Blackmagic dual monitor, Icon control surface, a Zaxcom Camera Link, and a Comtek BST-75-216. Can get a whole day on it.

 

battery is on the bottom and the hot box is fastened to the cart behind the bag.

 

 

CA5E422E-D9B9-44DA-BF4C-A20DEDC02A97.jpeg

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23 hours ago, tourtelot said:

Ah, cart building.  Always a fun time for me.

 

Question.  Are you really pulling 6-7 amps of DC on such a small cart?  I never pulled more than 3A on a full-fledged feature (stage) cart with a Yammy 01V96, an inverter, a Fostex DV824, a 788T, a Mac Mini, two monitors, two Venues, two Comtek 216 transmitters, etc, etc.  What's so current hungry?

 

D.

Wow interesting -

the sound devices pulls just shy of 2 amps fully loaded with an SL2

 

the black magic pulls 2.5 amps

and the icon never pulls more than 2

9 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said:

Currently an 833, an SL-2 with two SRCs, Blackmagic dual monitor, Icon control surface, a Zaxcom Camera Link, and a Comtek BST-75-216. Can get a whole day on it.

 

battery is on the bottom and the hot box is fastened to the cart behind the bag.

 

 

CA5E422E-D9B9-44DA-BF4C-A20DEDC02A97.jpeg

This is essentially the same rig I’m Building! 
 

very interesting - it’s a shame you don’t have an idea of whats left  on your battery via monitoring.

 

what’s your block battery rated at?

 

best

craig

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  • 1 year later...

Hi all, reviving this topic.

 

I'm also building a cart (out of all this slightly older sound gear) where I hope to keep the brains of the cart self contained in a removable Mixercage.  I also talked to Ron at PSC and have a PSC triple play in the mixer cage.  2 of the triple play inputs are fed by 2 4-pin full sized xlr outs of a PSC cart power II and one goes to an empty np-7 cup inside the cage for when it leaves the cart.  The cart power II has PSC LiFe battery backup.  In the Mixercage is SD 788t, PSC 6 pack, Comtek bst 75-216, and Lectro T4 IFB.  

The eventual BlackMagic monitors, venue and extra comtek will run directly from the 4 pin outs of the cart power II.  

I took a rough draft of this cart out to work on Friday and it seemed to go ok, although I noticed that the 788, venue, and single Marshall monitor I was using got hot pretty quickly.  I'm still working out how to test and calculate Amp draw, so there could be a problem there or it could just be normal for older gear. Still troubleshooting.  Anyone have any opinions on what I might be doing right or wrong?  

 It's another issue but I'm also troubleshooting RF.  Just ordered a scanner to see what kind if RF spray might be happening in that little box.

20220726_150840.jpg

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For my MiniCart, I use the Remote Audio LifeBox going to a small Audio Root distro. I had a special dummy Hi-Q "battery" made (powered off the distro) to fit into the cup of my bag so I can quickly add or remove the bag from the cart.

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61-pXHiqjFL._AC_SL1000_.jpg

If you want a $200 solution, I literally (yesterday) just got in the mail this little device that's technically meant for cameras BUT seems to be working fine on my cart with my 788t + PSC Solice Mini + VR Field + PSC Four Pack + 2x IFBT4 + Blackmagic Monitors.

 

V-Mount goes on top.  I have the power adapter in the "AC" position so if it gets pulled / AC power dies, v-mount auto kicks over.  There's a separate "Charge" port for a non included adapter so I think the AC adapter can only either charge the battery or run as a power supply, not both, which is fine because I just want the battery for backup and I already have a dedicated v-mount charger for my 3x v-mount batteries.  I have my blackmagic monitors plugged into the regulated 12v DC port and then I have the d-tap plugged into a splitter that goes via D-tap to TA4 for the PSC four pack and another Remote Audio BDS.  Seems everything is working fine at the moment but haven't used it on set yet.  100 watts is the max power output of the device so YMMV.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091513XWH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

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2 minutes ago, drpro said:

Nice solution Cody.  Usually lots of V mounts on most sets.  Never run out!!

That was my original thinking when I bought into the whole v-mount system years ago.  I do notice now that a lot of cameras seem to be using gold mounts though which wouldn't work with this plate BUT at a minimum, all these camera batteries have d-tap so you're always covered there.  I do believe there's simple gold mount adapter plates which might be a good investment too.

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18 minutes ago, ElanorR said:

Cody, I'm happy to see I'm not the only one still using a 788t and vr field.  Thanks for sharing your power solution.  

Works fine and sounds great!  I'm sure as the spectrum becomes more and more crowded, I'll eventually have to jump to a full digital solution for the wireless to pack things in tighter with wide band, but for now, I'll keep on rocking it as it was paid for long ago so it's all gravy at this point.

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On 7/27/2022 at 6:50 PM, codyman said:

61-pXHiqjFL._AC_SL1000_.jpg

If you want a $200 solution, I literally (yesterday) just got in the mail this little device that's technically meant for cameras BUT seems to be working fine on my cart with my 788t + PSC Solice Mini + VR Field + PSC Four Pack + 2x IFBT4 + Blackmagic Monitors.

 

V-Mount goes on top.  I have the power adapter in the "AC" position so if it gets pulled / AC power dies, v-mount auto kicks over.  There's a separate "Charge" port for a non included adapter so I think the AC adapter can only either charge the battery or run as a power supply, not both, which is fine because I just want the battery for backup and I already have a dedicated v-mount charger for my 3x v-mount batteries.  I have my blackmagic monitors plugged into the regulated 12v DC port and then I have the d-tap plugged into a splitter that goes via D-tap to TA4 for the PSC four pack and another Remote Audio BDS.  Seems everything is working fine at the moment but haven't used it on set yet.  100 watts is the max power output of the device so YMMV.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091513XWH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

This looks like an interesting solution. Been repurposing some camera power products as there are some good value solutions. I'm currently trying to build a similar cart to those above and have experimented with a 150wh BEBOB V-lock battery. Using a 3a charger it will continue to O/P 16v from the V lock terminals while being charged through the DTap port. I've only tried this while the battery has been fully charged so i need to see what's what when it's running low. The charger actually has 2 DTap charging leads and a 4pin XLR 16v power O/P so hopefully it has enough to power the kit and charge the battery 1 way or the other, albeit slowly. 

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1 hour ago, daniel said:

This looks like an interesting solution. Been repurposing some camera power products as there are some good value solutions. I'm currently trying to build a similar cart to those above and have experimented with a 150wh BEBOB V-lock battery. Using a 3a charger it will continue to O/P 16v from the V lock terminals while being charged through the DTap port. I've only tried this while the battery has been fully charged so i need to see what's what when it's running low. The charger actually has 2 DTap charging leads and a 4pin XLR 16v power O/P so hopefully it has enough to power the kit and charge the battery 1 way or the other, albeit slowly. 

how much power does your setup draw? if your charger is only rated to 3A, you may be asking too much of it to charge your battery and power your rig.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/10/2022 at 9:06 PM, rich said:

how much power does your setup draw? if your charger is only rated to 3A, you may be asking too much of it to charge your battery and power your rig.

833_SL2 seems to pull 20-30w which I calculate to result in trickle charging at best if using Bebob battery at the same time. I'm waiting on a cable before I can do much more with this for now.

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