drpro Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Anyone out there know anything about the Aaton closing? As a Cantar owner curious what these means for those of us invested in the product. I remember when Transvideo bought them in 2013 and thought things were going well. Then again it is such a niche market. Thoughts appreciated. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 From Aaton Cantar-X Facebook Group It's sad day for production sound industry. 😟 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB1 Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Market value of the Scorpio just shot up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, OB1 said: Market value of the Scorpio just shot up. And as someone who has really no idea (...really has no idea...) does this have anything to do with our niche-of the-industry being subjected to buyouts over the last several years of so many of our longstanding trusted and hands-on manufacturers? Industry RIP if you ask me. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Further confirmation I am afraid: https://www.societe.com/societe/aaton-digital-794022384.html 2 hours ago, OB1 said: Market value of the Scorpio just shot up. Sadly we're living in a world where there is only one serious drama machine being currently made and sold Hope that lack of competition doesn't lead to stagnation and price increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyman Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 16 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Hope that lack of competition doesn't lead to stagnation and price increases. Ron Howard's Narrator Voice: It did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 35 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Sadly we're living in a world where there is only one serious drama machine being currently made and sold Doesn't the Nova count? It may not be as well suited to Drama as the Scorpio, but it's certainly capable enough for most shows. And the Deva24 is still on Zaxcom's website ... not sure if it's in production though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpro Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 Yep the boardrooms are seeing dollar signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said: Doesn't the Nova count? It may not be as well suited to Drama as the Scorpio, but it's certainly capable enough for most shows. And the Deva24 is still on Zaxcom's website ... not sure if it's in production though. Deva24 I believe is no longer currently made (I think an issue with parts shortages? As is often the case, with screwed up supply chains). And the Nova is like the Sound Devices 833, certainly a very capable mixer that's suitable enough for many (even most?) shows. But when it comes to specifically targeting drama mixing at seriously high end, then the Nova is like the 833, it's more of a bag first mixer or at best a hybrid between bag vs cart. (for instance, no Dante, and Nova doesn't have anything similar to the Aaton Cantaress / Sound Devices CL16 to mix with) I regard Nova / 833 as like the Sonosax SX-R4+, also a very fine machine, suitable for many/most drama productions. But's primarily a bag mixer first, rather than prioritizing the biggest serious high end drama work. I guess that's a niche that's too small, and is a factor as to why Aaton went into bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Yeah ... I suspect the Deva24 was a victim of the factory fire that forced the Nova2. I can't imagine Deva24 will stay out of production forever. But, as you say, it's a very small niche given how capable the Nova and lower tier 8-series are. Nova works with both the Mix16 and the Aria (which can daisy-chain to 16 channels), so there are two 16-channel control surfaces for it, plus the Oasis if you can get by with 8 faders. I'm not going to say they are as slick as the CL-16, but they exist. Zaxcom's also allows / intends them for use with their tablet GUI which ... isn't great, but exists and is usable. You are right about missing dante. People keep asking about it... I'm sure it will happen eventually. Right now you'd need a 16-channel dante-to-AES converter to make the Nova work. Assuming that exists in cart form, you could work with it. High end drama isn't my world, but I can't think of too many other features missing ... channel EQs maybe? More analogue inputs? (Given how much wireless is involved, I don't think they are essential, but it would be a barrier if your wireless doesn't output AES.) I'm kind of shocked I can't think of any others though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 The Nova is in use on many Sound Carts and is a very capable 16 track recorder. With multiple choices of control panels and many unique features that are not offered by our competition. For example fully integrated wireless microphone control and internal wireless receivers. Zaxcom is committed to the location sound market and we are always working on new products. For Recording, wireless and IFB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tong0615 Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Let's not forget Sonosax, they also make fantastic recorders and mixers, and well-suited for drama/theater use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Being used Sonosax RX4+ for TV Drama with eight wireless, no issues or limit channel / track; it's 16 tracks recorder. Have used 788T last summer as well, no issues. That "things" being build to last, not being refrigerators. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wynne Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Let's not forget the goals of a receivership, meaning things are most likely not over. Hopefully just changing over hands. The Aaton brand and its products has a very high value and a loyal user base who are willing to make the investment for the type of quality they provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Unfortunately, they've fired all 6 employees, so even if it does get through receivership with a new owner, the engineering team is gone. We can hope (and it sounds like at least some of the team is hoping to stick things through), but it probably won't be as simple as just getting a new owner. Most of the institutional knowledge will be gone by the time the new owners manage to put the wheels back on, and that's assuming they would be intending to operate as the company previously did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Who knows. Someone might just buy the brand and sell whatever stuff using it, or, if the new owners want to keep the current products they will need the engineering staff. In the late 90's I was designing multi track voice recorders (clunky stuff for call centers). We were a group of four people inside a larger company focusing on cable infrastructure and networking. The company went bankrupt and it was acquired by new owners. The new owners weren't interested on the development group I was part of and an interested party approached the new owners in order to acquire our business. Before approaching them, the interested party contacted each of us in order to know what we expected, what we wanted, ie, in order to make sure that they acquired a team and not just a bunch of source code, schematics and a brand name. They even asked our opinion on the location to set up the new premises, which new staff we needed, if any, etc. Sadly the new owners asked for too much money and the operation was aborted. So several months later I just left the company (I was the architect of the system and I had developed the most complex part of the software) and the value of the operation became zero. So, who knows. Not all "corporate" types are stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lonek Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 In general, it is very strange to see that much lack of competition. Making an audio recorder and it´s UI is not an atomic science. I don´t prefer the anatomy of cantar recorders at all - it makes even easy operations tricky. Boot times terrible. Input functions limited. Unbearably heavy. Lack of MixAssist / Dugan until the last minute, Lack of SuperSlot. Stiff onboard mixer faders (great cantaress, though). A need to buy an external box to have physical gain knobs. Buttons don´t work when dust gets in. There´s too much stress on set to operate such an absurdly complex piece of equipment on top of it. It´s not doing anything else than recording an audio signal and timecode ! Cantar only worked mentally in some absurd way : once you forced that thing to operate the way you wanted, you got honored with that spurious "atomic scientist pride". But that didn´t win a nobel prize for you. That´s where the audio mixer job only begins. SD, ZOOM and even ZAXCOM make much more straightforward equipment. Yes, I don´t love the overheating Scorpio that´s less durable and flawless compared to 6XX/7XX line but it seems like it´s the best new piece of equipment out there recently. My secret horse is ZOOM Japan. They´re a hair away of making something big. Add Dante support, double the channel count , make bigger mixing surface with same brains as great F - Control. You will rule this market. RIP Aaton. You were not my love but you have my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rillie Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Wow! Sounds like troll talk. I haven’t read such vitriolic nonsense for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lonek Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Jim Rillie said: Wow! Sounds like troll talk. I haven’t read such vitriolic nonsense for a long time. I understand your feelings. Your feedback is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Display Name Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 BlackMagic have a penchant for buy left overs from closed businesses and open them for the masses. And they are quite empty on the dedicated audio recorder area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyman Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Display Name said: BlackMagic have a penchant for buy left overs from closed businesses and open them for the masses. And they are quite empty on the dedicated audio recorder area. Might be a good candidate. What the market needs is something to fill the big price vacuum between a Zoom F8N and an 833. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 18 hours ago, glenn said: The Nova is in use on many Sound Carts and is a very capable 16 track recorder. With multiple choices of control panels and many unique features that are not offered by our competition. For example fully integrated wireless microphone control and internal wireless receivers. Zaxcom is committed to the location sound market and we are always working on new products. For Recording, wireless and IFB. Does that mean the Deva 24 is permanently out of production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, codyman said: Might be a good candidate. What the market needs is something to fill the big price vacuum between a Zoom F8N and an 833. Imagine if Blackmagic purchased Aaton and released a $3K Cantar Mini v2, that would be insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattRuth Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 49 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Imagine if Blackmagic purchased Aaton and released a $3K Cantar Mini v2, that would be insane! even more insane, imagine if zoom bought them, and released it. That would be akward. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, MattRuth said: even more insane, imagine if zoom bought them, and released it. That would be akward. lol Even more insane: What if Zoom purchased Aaton simply to use their brand name, and nothing else. Thus they then released the "Aaton Cantar F8" entirely under the Aaton brand. (would be identical to the current latest F8 series machines, perhaps with a small natural update to it) To be fair, it would fix the biggest problem about the Zoom F Series! That it "is a Zoom" (as the Zoom brand name carries a lot of negativity, even though the F8n is a truly fantastic machine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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