IFB - ComTek vs Lectrosonics vs Zaxcom vs Sennheiser G3 IEM

[TomBoisseau]

IFB - ComTek vs Lectrosonics vs Zaxcom vs Sennheiser G3 IEM

I'm considering moving from an older Lectrosonics IFB system to using instead Sennheiser EK 300 G3 IEM recievers. Here are my reasons:

1. I already own a number of SK 100 transmitters that I use for camera hops, etc. (I found that the EK 300 G3 is fully compatible IF you turn off the the pilot tone)

2. Why have a separate transmitter for IFB and camera hops? In "most" cases (for me) it will be the same feed.

3. The Lectro system I'm using is in the 700mhz band

4. The Lectro transmitter I have is the T1, which is big and draws too much current for bag use

5. The EK 300 uses AA batteies as opposed to 9 volts

6. I've been quoted $375 for the EK 300 receivers.

In my mind these seem to be good reasons to go with the Sennheiser, however I'm sure I'm probably overlooking something. What am I missing? The only thing that crosses my mind are the Zaxcom units that also receive timecode, although I'm not sure I'm willing to spend that sort of money. I'd appreciate some arguments as to why I might NOT want to use the Sennheiser

Thanks,

Tom

[Matthias Richter]

The Sennheiser is THE standard for IFB in German (maybe European) filmproduction.

Works just fine.

[Constantin]

Range might be an issue. The SK100 only outputs 30mW. You could use an SK2000, though, which outputs 50mW (in Europe, maybe more in the US).

I use the Sennheiser system on my cart with a rackmount transmitter. Now you could even send stereo mixes or two separate mono feeds. And you can remote the antenna.

The other systems you list are all better in most aspects (except if you want stereo), but price-wise it's hard to beat Sennheiser

[vale]

I'd add that you could frequently find some used sennheiser receiver if you want to have more of that in the future...

[nevo]

Ive just been in the same situation,and after all my testing went with Comtek 216 system for agency ,director and sennheiser g3 for boom op.

I did walk tests with lectro T4 /R1a, comtek 216 ,sk100/ek300 ,BST25/76-88/pr25 and um400/G3 in mode6 emulation.

I got the best distance(approx 100m) from the comtek I was surprised that a 10mw comtek gave me more distance than a 250mw lectro T4.I thought they both sounded similar , rather mid fi.

The sk100/ek300 sounds the most hifi to me but gave me the least distance.

I am going to try the SR300 half rack with a shark fin.

From a cost perspective I managed to get a good deal on 13 rx and 2x tx .I can use one of the Tx/rx for boom if needed .

I have been running comtek  systems for many years and they have been pretty rock solid.

Its a compromise between range and fidelity and the pr216 sounds good enough to me.

My 2 cents

ant

 

[glenn]

I think you would find that the audio quality between the ERX2TCD and any FM analog monitor do not compare. Yes the Zaxcom system has a higher price per pack but they do pay for themselves very quickly due to the timecode distribution feature. With the time code display on the pack they put you in a different league vs a traditional solution. Transmission encryption is also another selling feature for your clients. The backup recorder in the transmitter is not too shabby either. 

 

I am sure any dealer will lend you a system to try out. If not I will.

 

Glenn

[TomBoisseau]

I think you would find that the audio quality between the ERX2TCD and any FM analog monitor do not compare. Yes the Zaxcom system has a higher price per pack but they do pay for themselves very quickly due to the timecode distribution feature. With the time code display on the pack they put you in a different league vs a traditional solution. Transmission encryption is also another selling feature for your clients. The backup recorder in the transmitter is not too shabby either. 

 

I am sure any dealer will lend you a system to try out. If not I will.

 

Glenn

Glenn,

I must say, if cost were of no concern, I would defiantly go with the ERX2TCD. Although I recently purchased a 633, and a year ago 2 664's, I am very impressed with the Zaxcom products. Truly you folks are undoubtably the most innovative and high tech, offering features and flexibility, and far surpassing anyone else that I am aware of. Your support, that I read of here, and the speed at which you introduce firmware updates is amazing. I suspect, in time, I will change over to ALL Zaxcom products.

Tom

[Nathaniel Robinson]

I was recently faced with a similar decision, and went with a few Sennheiser IEM. For *my* needs/clients, it is a good fit. I already carry a few sets of G3 as backup/extra wireless channels. I regularly use them as a mono camera hop, and adding a few IEM integrates nicely; no extra transmitter in the bag. This is for small shoots, where maybe the script sup or director wants IFB.

 

Comteks have better range and incredible battery life, Lectro R1a will probably survive a nuclear explosion BUT the flexibility and ubiquity of the G3 won me over (for now).

[TomBoisseau]

The Sennheiser IEM DOES have more flexibility, especially considering the fact that I already am using the Sennheiser SK100 transmitters and EK100 receivers for camera hops and timecode transmission,. Additionally I occasionally do live sound where the IEM's could serve double duty as actual IEM's. Perhaps, if it was ONLY for use as IFB, I'd feel differently.

With that in mind, I think I'll likely start out with the ew 300-2 IEM G3 bundle which includes a half rack stereo transmitter and 2 of the EK 300 IEM receivers. I don't really need the rack mount transmitter for location sound, but I'll probably use it eventually, and the "discount" by buying it as a package is quite significant.

Thanks guys for all your comments. I mainly wanted to make sure I was not making a choice I would regret. While there is no guarantee that I won't have regret, it is sounding rather unlikely. If anyone here can give good reason why I and the Sennheiser IEM's should not be joined together, speak now, or forever hold our piece!

Tom

[Brandon Pert]

I use sennheiser ifb for my boom op and Comteks for clients. Occasionally the shorter range is an issue so I'll give the boom op a comtek instead. Eventually I want to get zaxom ifb for boom and cam hops.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glenn]

Thanks Tom.

 

Best Wishes

 

Glenn

[Constantin]

By the way, if you do use the 1/2 rack Sennheiser transmitter, you can also send tc and audio to one stereo receiver. Just route one left, the other right, and that's it. So in that way it is just like an ERX, except it can't display the TC.

Glenn mentioned other valid advantages of his IFB system, but range isn't one of them. The Sennheiser system is not bad

[TomBoisseau]

Constantin,

That's very interesting. I didn't think of that.

Thanks,

Tom

[glenn]

"So in that way it is just like an ERX,"

 

Constantin that is not the case at all. The ERX2TXD has a built in time code generator and does not need to receive code to have a perfect TC output all the time. It also has a very accurate output level needed for proper connection to most cameras.  Because SMPTE TC has no checksums an FM receiver can not put out totally reliable code in the way an ERX can. ERX also provides an adjustable time offset and conversion between frame rates.

 

Using an FM monitor receiver for TC transmission does work but will never provide an error free output like the ERX will. Also the ERX has no crosstalk between the audio and the timecode signal unlike that of an FM stereo system.

 

So on the time code side range is better than FM analog due to the internal generator.  Audio range is good on our system but it will not win any contests. If price and range are deciding factors then we are not the best choice. Otherwise we are here to serve.

 

While I am posting here I forgot to post about the 10 frame adjustable audio delay in each ERX that eliminates the monitor delay issue common on most large productions. This feature helps to justify the additional cost vs analog.

 

Glenn

[Malcolm Davies Amps CAS]

I use the stereo rack TX on the cart with remote aerial and that gives me a feed to the G3's plus a private line to talk to the boom-op.

I lose the private line when using a bag as for lightness and space I have the mono G3 mounted permanently in the bag.

The system works flawlessly for me and I find the G3 more than adequate for the job.

Malcolm Davies. AMPS CAS.

[Constantin]

"So in that way it is just like an ERX,"

Constantin that is not the case at all. The ERX2TXD has a built in time code generator and does not need to receive code to have a perfect TC output all the time. It also has a very accurate output level needed for proper connection to most cameras. Because SMPTE TC has no checksums an FM receiver can not put out totally reliable code in the way an ERX can. ERX also provides an adjustable time offset and conversion between frame rates.

Using an FM monitor receiver for TC transmission does work but will never provide an error free output like the ERX will. Also there is no crosstalk between the audio and the timecode signal like that of an FM stereo system.

So on the time code side range is better than FM analog due to the internal generator. Audio range is good on our system but it will not win any contests. If price and range are deciding factors then we are not the best choice. Otherwise we are here to serve.

While I am posting here I forgot to post about the 10 frame adjustable audio delay in each ERX that eliminates the monitor delay issue common on most large productions. This feature helps to justify the additional cost vs analog.

Glenn

You're right Glenn, you're system is way more sophisticated than the Sennheiser IEMs. No doubt about that. Which is why I use both in combination. But I only pointed out that one of the many advantages of the ERX, namely to output TC and IFB, could also be achieved with the Sennheiser gear. And it's true, it can do that.

Anyway, you're right about crosstalk, I intended to mention that, but forgot. Still, it might work, I haven't actually tried it.

[John Blankenship]

I own Comtek 216s, Comtek 72s, Sennheiser G2 IEMs, and have some Zaxcom ERXs due in next week (the East Coast storm prevented them from arriving yesterday).

While I own a large inventory of Lectrosonics wireless, I have little experience with their IFB systems.

I use the Comtek 216s for most of my client monitoring. For my work I feel they are the best choice, with excellent battery life, surprisingly good range, and DURABILITY (note the emphasis on the last feature). It seems that at least one (often more) of them is dropped to a hard floor on every shoot.

When I have a larger video village crowd, the 72s are also distributed.

I've been using The G2 IEMs for Boom Operators as they have a wider frequency response than the Comteks, which helps a boom op know more about things like low frequency handling noise. However, their range is not equal to the Comteks.

I also reserve a couple of G2s for times when I want to leave the cart but still monitor it, and for a director if he/she desires a wider response (hasn't happened yet, other than one director who required a direct, hard-wired 7506 headphone feed).

I'm looking forward to getting to know the ERXs and learning what their principle roles will be. That will depend upon several factors, including range and perceived ruggedness.

[Wandering Ear]

You're right Glenn, you're system is way more sophisticated than the Sennheiser IEMs. No doubt about that. Which is why I use both in combination. But I only pointed out that one of the many advantages of the ERX, namely to output TC and IFB, could also be achieved with the Sennheiser gear. And it's true, it can do that.

Anyway, you're right about crosstalk, I intended to mention that, but forgot. Still, it might work, I haven't actually tried it.

It's not just sophistication, there is a fundamental and major difference between sending a tc stream via wireless, and a tc generator that jams wirelessly. Personally i would only trust and use the latter, whether it be the zaxcom, ambeint, tc buddy, whichever.

i use erx for everyone, client, boom, camera, director, myself when away from the cart. I am very happy with the system.

[pverrando]

I love my Senn G2/G3 iems and xmtr/receivers. 
- mini plug input/output is highly compatible without need for custom cables. You can feed a red epic with an ipod cable. Transmitter Mic/line input thru tip or ring. You can hook up to anything with a good set of adaptors. Have you sent audio to a Black Magic camera yet? Non-standard strangely wired 1/4" jack inputs, but no problem with a Senn and an ipod cable with a headphone adaptor.
- feed hops and Ifb with same xmtr, as mentioned
- I've yet to have one break
- huge battery life
-audio/rf metering on every unit
-better range than lectro or zax, owing to receivers have external whip antennas
-transmitter won't RF swamp a sound bag
-some venues now restricting 2.4 gHz devices as they compete with wifi 
-super wide input/output level settings
-instinctively intuitive to use. Big, understandable, backlit display
-great for feeding video assist, pa systems, or pulling feeds from PA or press feeds
-velcro them together for 2 channels, and they are still a very small reciever pkg.
-Great crash wireless for talent

I've found that the Lectro IFBs are better if your crew needs to change receiver channels frequently to listen to different sound units. They just push the volume button to cycle thru programmed channels, without needing to look at it. Don't know if the ERX can do this. Its tough to teach a showrunner to do it on an iem.

-Senn's butt-plug transmitters are also cheap and great for a quickn'dirty wireless handheld for PA or voice-of-god mic for AD's
-iem headphone amp VERY loud. Even the regular receivers can drive a headphone at +6
-you will probably get less range with the stereo xmtr due to mutiplexing, but good external antenna may make up for it.
-easy to coordinate freqs with internal pre-selects/rf metering, or use freq finder.
IEMs and receivers will also receive acceptable audio sent from more powerful lectro IFB transmitters.
-I could go on. I've got buckets of these things.

But I never will use them as frontline talent wireless.

[Constantin]

It's not just sophistication, there is a fundamental and major difference between sending a tc stream via wireless, and a tc generator that jams wirelessly. Personally i would only trust and use the latter, whether it be the zaxcom, ambeint, tc buddy, whichever.

i use erx for everyone, client, boom, camera, director, myself when away from the cart. I am very happy with the system.

I am not arguing any of this. But if you are on a tight budget and are facing a camera crew that's unwilling to put more than one box on thr camera, the G3 IEM TC/audio option could be a good possibility. I used to be on many shoots where I provided the TC feed via the G2/3 wireless to several cameras. It has always worked very well. Still, once I had a Lockit, I never looked back.

I will add this though, on the first project on which I used three brand new ERX, two of them broke, after a simple drop. On one the display went dark, on the other the side of the battery compartment broke off.

I can't count the number of times a G3 receiver has been dropped to the floor. Barely scratched the surface

[foliver]

Response to 2:

I use g3 and g3. But i sent mix to cameras, sound goes to video Asist in SDI along with picture, and i use another tx, in another freq for cliente, director, script etc, so they have playback

Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk

[justanross]

Trust me. Check out the ERX2TCD's. Amazing. I use them all the time, epically for sending timecode and a guide track. My Comteks are now just IFB back ups.

And with the IFB200 you get a two track recorder as well. Just spend the money now.

[Derek H]

ERX users: please elaborate on your transmitter and antenna configuration. What works and what doesn't? I.e. transmitter model, RF output power, amplifier usage, antenna type.

Also, I remember reading some posts about the ERX having trouble with crosstalk at some settings is that true?

[Boomboom]

ERX users: please elaborate on your transmitter and antenna configuration. What works and what doesn't? I.e. transmitter model, RF output power, amplifier usage, antenna type.

+1

[chris_bollard]

Lectro R1a - producers can't kill them no matter how many times they drop them. Paired with UM400a I get lots of "I can't believe I could still hear the IFB when I went two floors down to the car park".