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Deity BP-TX 2 Announced


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7 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

I agree that it's also a question of ethics, so in this specific thread case we *do* know that there is a previous US patent and that it most likely also applies to this new transmitter.

However, there could well be cases where it's impossible to know for me personally if an item that I bought abroad could violate any local patent claims if brought back (both because I don't know about the specific grinding mechanism, and even less if that patent is enforceable at all or invalid) .  

This is true but your coffee grinder mechanism analogy doesn't really seem to help clarify the issue we are discussing. It also further confuses this whole idea that we are helpless in determining if we are purchasing a product that infringes any patents. In the case of sound gear, I would assume that most of us are quite well informed about all the aspects of the products we are considering purchasing and using. Witness the volume of information here on JWSOUND even on just this topic.

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we advise 4, but technically it can be higher (some use it with 6 channels). We also are sending a back (remote controlling) over a different channel. So that let us say, 4 channels of TX, means 8 cha

There is one on the Connect kit user page, scroll down and click on support. The site is in overhaul at the moment and the rest will be added to the new one.   We do not use the traditiona

The BP-TRX will come in a solo version, a "timecode kit" (2x BP-TRX with accessories like TC cables, exact cables/bundle will be disclosed soon) and a "deluxe kit" (hard case, DUO-RX, 2X BP TRX, 2x W.

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7 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

 

as other have mentioned I think you're mixing things up.


no. Look, counterfeiting is when someone tries to build an exact replica if something else. Like the many fake 416‘s we‘re seeing. But they all have Sennheiser written on them. That’s a case for the customs agencies to try and catch it at the port of entry. But they will need to be alerted by someone, like the manufacturer of the original device, like Sennheiser in this case. 
With the patented gear it is the same. A patent or a trademark (which is like a patent for your logo) infringement can be really obvious, like a rip-off, as I called it earlier. An imitation of another product, perhaps, but it can also be more intricate, of course, like some internal mechanism. But it would still be a rip-off. 
Customs can seize all of these products. But, as I said before, they will need to be informed about possible infringement by the manufacturer of the infringed product. Customs are not likely to find these on their own, nor did I say they are. And I said it’s a slim possibility that it will get found, but maybe company A was somehow made aware of the patent infringement and they CAN alert authorities about this and ask them to confiscate that other product. That doesn’t mean they will or have to, Since all international shipments have a list of all products inside on the outside (and they have to send these to customs as well) the mechanism are theoretically in place to stop the products. 
 

And just because there are a lot of patents certainly cannot mean that as a manufacturer it’s ok to not search the database and then simply ignore the patent issue. And it’s not impossible to know, that’s why the patent offices have databases. That is as a company.
 

And I would like to reiterate something else I said earlier, if you - as a professional - bring a product into a country you are for all intents and purposes, in the eyes of the law, the manufacturer. If you buy something, like I assume in Deity‘s case, where the manufacturer already has an importer and distributor in place you‘re probably ok, because they will assume responsibility. But you can’t rely on that. That’s how it is. That’s why you should not buy these things abroad, unless you are aware of the ramifications, or you simply take your chance with it, which is always a good option and it will probably be ok

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44 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Customs are not likely to find these on their own, nor did I say they are. And I said it’s a slim possibility that it will get found, but maybe company A was somehow made aware of the patent infringement and they CAN alert authorities about this and ask them to confiscate that other product. That doesn’t mean they will or have to, Since all international shipments have a list of all products inside on the outside (and they have to send these to customs as well) the mechanism are theoretically in place to stop the products. 

You have an news article or something else that shows this happened? That an individual brought back or ordered a laptop/hair dryer/vacuum cleaner/wireless TX and it got confiscated by a customs officer on grounds of patent infringement? I hear all the time that products get confiscated to pay a hefty import tarif to the nation's treasure, and after that things just carry on. To be clear, I do not endorse this kind of behaviour, but I'd like to point out that you might have a valid point, but there is completely no system in place for that. Nor any consequences as how you describe them here. Yes, for the dealers/big orders/trade shows I can imagine they have something in place. For the 5 billion Amazon/Thomann/AliExpress orders per day? Neh.

 

Show me one news article that an Apple called the customs, to tell that Peter Parker from London is flying to NYC with a laptop, which contains a chip with patent infringement, and that customs picked the guy out of the plane and took his laptop away, because he was on US soil.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

And just because there are a lot of patents certainly cannot mean that as a manufacturer it’s ok to not search the database and then simply ignore the patent issue. And it’s not impossible to know, that’s why the patent offices have databases. That is as a company.

 

I think we're missing part of each other points (as so often on online discussions)

 

I was talking about local patents. why would a company which sells locally only to Australia search the database of german (or any other countries) patents? 

And how should I as a single person (even a professional) have a chance to make sure that things I buy in Australia don't have any tech that is copyrighted in Germany built in?

 

As you say the only way would be not to buy any products from outside my home country (no electric toothbrush, no watch, no photo camera etc).

to me that sounds very strange, and I want to believe that our justice system is sound enough that if I get caught with said toothbrush, I will not get arrested unless it's obvious that I'm involved in a conscious fraud.

 

I agree with most of your post though and it's well possible that my toothbrush will get confiscated if the local patent holder can prove that the model in question can't be legally used in Germany. 

 

sorry for straying so much off topic...

I think most of us agree that in the specific case of the Deity transmitter is quite clear that one can't legally sell it in the USA (or rather, one would risk an rather expensive legal battle with questionable chance of success).

 

It's still not clear to me if one is legally forbidden to *use* one in the USA - say I'm making a documentary produced in Germany and we fly over to the US for a couple of days. Am I allowed to bring my recording transmitters? I sure would find it odd if I couldn't, but stranger things have happened in the international legal system and I guess only a very specialised lawyer could tell for sure.

 

 

 

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The equipment which is on my ATA Carnet will be used what ever existing patents they are. It’s a temporal export so it’s effectively not considered belonging to the visiting country (no VAT). 

 

Now another question is if the seller of a second hand equipment is responsible like a distributor? 

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It's a great peace of equipment for people on the budget. Not everybody needs the high end stuff. Beeing able to record with timecode and also monitor the signal on the mixer is evereything I've dreamed of :)

 

Greetings

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6 hours ago, pillepalle said:

Beeing able to record with timecode and also monitor the signal on the mixer is evereything I've dreamed of :)

And 100% control of all the settings remotely 😀

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1 minute ago, chrismedr said:

great, that includes the gain I assume?

 

Start/stop recording, gain, limiter, low cut/high boost, stand-by, transmission power etc etc. literally the complete menu.

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Just to stress one point I made, once again, before we can put this to rest, perhaps, as it totally blew out of proportion. Admittedly, I play no small part in that and I‘m sorry about that. I just wanted to highlight that it can be potentially risky to buy gear and bring it into a market it wasn’t meant for. 
 

So the last thing that might have been lost: 

there is a difference if you buy something commercially or privately. If you buy a single toothbrush or - probably - a laptop, there will not be a problem. Although you will have to pay import tariffs, but that’s a different story. 
What I described earlier applies only to business imports. Things you bring into the country as a professional or company. Theoretically, the quantity won’t matter, but of course in real life it probably will. I said repeatedly the chances of getting into trouble are slim, but they are real. There are products that are easily identifiable as private use. But clearly with a something like the Deity it’s different. 
Again, chances are slim. 
 

Ideally, that’s all I‘ll say about this particular discussion strand

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On 4/29/2020 at 6:35 PM, Jim Feeley said:

Anyone have an international version of Audio Ltd's A10-TX, and if so does it have a FCC stamp?

The international version carries the FCC ID, which is actually still the same as the discontinued 1010; NRKTX1010.

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2 Questions to deity:

What is the dynamic range or accepted voltage of your units?

What is your legal cooperate name and location? I can't find any imprint or information of such sort on your website.

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2 minutes ago, DanieldH said:

2 Questions to deity:

What is the dynamic range or accepted voltage of your units?

What is your legal cooperate name and location? I can't find any imprint or information of such sort on your website.

Chinese company in Shenzen

image.png

https://fccid.io/2AABZ

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41 minutes ago, DanieldH said:

2 Questions to deity:

What is the dynamic range or accepted voltage of your units?

What is your legal cooperate name and location? I can't find any imprint or information of such sort on your website.

1. 5v input via USB-C
2. The mother company indeed is Aputure (Aputure lightning and Deity Microphones are the "children"), local branches (Deity) are incorporated in Almere (Amsterdam) The Netherlands for Europe , And Los Angeles USA. So all warranty and repair are handled according to local legislation (and dealt with locally), also stock and warehousing is respectively handled from those two locations for the US and Europe.  Design and development is literally a world wide endeavor. 

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2 hours ago, codyman said:

Chinese company in Shenzen

Allot of goods are manufactured there. Whole n'other can of worms. FYI-I source locally when possible/practical. It'd be like saying Detroit/Automobiles in the 60's though. All the best is made there; Foxconn, etc...

 

It is what it is. 

 

I don't relate to Deity, but I have respect for @Vincent R.

 

I've felt inclined to troll and bad mouth the company, but resisted because I like the general idea and the direction they are headed. I would prefer to support rather than tear apart. I've been following them from the git go. 

 

Just want to take to opportunity to say how much I appreciate all in this community. 

 

I wouldn't think twice about buying a Deity product, if it fits my needs and budget.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Dalton Patterson said:

Allot of goods are manufactured there. Whole n'other can of worms. FYI-I source locally when possible/practical. It'd be like saying Detroit/Automobiles in the 60's though. All the best is made there; Foxconn, etc...

It totally makes sense why they make it in China.  Nobody could manufacturer that unit (IMHO) for $250 a unit here stateside.  Actually it is quite impressive that they can even make it for that price in China since wages have been on the rise there and some manufacturers have started looking elsewhere.  I recently purchased a new lower end Marantz 7.2 receiver and it was manufactured in Vietnam of all places.

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Indeed "overseas" manufacturing is not uncommon, even in our industry (the aforementioned Audio ltd. A10 series is made in Taiwan, for example). Also, keep in mind, that the world is bigger the US and EU, and the film and television (content creation) in other regions are getting bigger and bigger as well. So, what is local anyways..? 😉

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5 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Indeed "overseas" manufacturing is not uncommon, even in our industry (the aforementioned Audio ltd. A10 series is made in Taiwan, for example). Also, keep in mind, that the world is bigger the US and EU, and the film and television (content creation) in other regions are getting bigger and bigger as well. So, what is local anyways..? 😉


Yes, and generally that’s a good thing, too. It provides jobs and income in parts of the world that didn’t have much of either before. It would be good, though, if these jobs were paid well and under high safety and workplace standards, that includes excluding children from the work.

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7 minutes ago, Constantin said:

It would be good, though, if these jobs were paid well and under high safety and workplace standards, that includes excluding children from the work.

Are you suggesting that Deity is underpaying and putting children at work..? I can assure you that neither is the case. So again, just like you did with the whole border/custom discussion, please don't derail the whole topic again. 

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2 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Are you suggesting that Deity is underpaying and putting children at work..? 


No, absolutely not! It was a general statement about aspects of globalisation. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

So again, just like you did with the whole border/custom discussion, please don't derail the whole topic again. 


The topic had derailed itself already. I thought it was a good moment to comment both on the positive and negative aspects of the common practice of manufacturing in cheap labour countries. Feel free to scroll past my comments  if you don’t agree with them or find them unsuitable for this topic

 

Edit: or of course, comment as you see fit

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16 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

1. 5v input via USB-C
2. The mother company indeed is Aputure (Aputure lightning and Deity Microphones are the "children"), local branches (Deity) are incorporated in Almere (Amsterdam) The Netherlands for Europe , And Los Angeles USA. So all warranty and repair are handled according to local legislation (and dealt with locally), also stock and warehousing is respectively handled from those two locations for the US and Europe.  Design and development is literally a world wide endeavor. 

Hey Vincent,

thnx for your answer.

1. I was refering to the audio input level. Where is the noise floor and @ what voltage is it clipping / the limiter active?

2. Thanks for clearing this up. That is good to know. (I do not have issues using Chinese brands.)

 

Since this has become a discussion about it, these are already a part of professional sets. DJI provides camera accessories and I expect to see more in the future. I probably have already but were not aware that it is Chinese. There where times where "Made in China" stood for poor quality. That is not necessarily the case any more and my impression is, it does not apply to Apture.
Child labor and poor working conditions are an issue in all electronics(and textiles and probably a lot more). Even companies like Fairphone can't guarantee to deliver a product with fair raw materials.

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I think that you can generally critizize our economical system, or the globalization, but this topic is more a political and social topic and I'm not sure if a forum like this is the right place to discuss that. Things where not built to last anymore and you replace cheap gear instead of repairing it. You have no customer service. And when you don't produce large quantities and you don't produce in a country where the loans are low it's obvious that the prices has to be higher. So everything has it's ups and downsides. 

 

I come from a photography background and I remember times when it costs at least 500 bugs to sync a flash unit wirelessly to a camera. Then came some cheap chinese clones (bad in quality and reliability) but after a couple of years the knockoffs get better and better. Today they are as good as the originals and you can sync your flashes for about 50 bugs to your camera. Similar to what happens to timecode-boxes in the last years. Until tentacle sync (even if this are germans) came along timecode boxes where bulky and expensive. Nowadays even the established brands have cheaper and smaler units in their repertoire. I think you have to be aware that a low price has a reason and you have to decide wether to buy it or not.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DanieldH said:

1. I was refering to the audio input level. Where is the noise floor and @ what voltage is it clipping / the limiter active?

 


The exact preamp specs will be disclosed when we are close to launch. About the limiter (switchable on/off by the way); I just asked the engineering team for the specs, so I have to get back to you on that, in the meantime, you can check out @Allen Williams review of the HD-TX, which has basically the same analogue limiter. Limiter test starts at 10:31:

 

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On 4/30/2020 at 9:49 AM, Vincent R. said:

Start/stop recording, gain, limiter, low cut/high boost, stand-by, transmission power etc etc. literally the complete menu.

Will that be the case with the Duo RX?

Might there even be an Android app on a bigger screen connected via USB to do so?

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