Advice please: bad sound, a difficult actor, on set politics and reduced budgets

[sonicparticle]

Hey all

I desperately need some advice. Apologies about the long post.

I got hired on a Tuesday from a young director to go on set on Monday. Now, I'm in the 2nd week of production.

The film has an one star actor, which is infamous for being "difficult". As a result a young boom operator as myself has been verbally intimidated by the guy, twice. But this is not my immediate problem.

Also, I have to add that the production crew is very small. Three camera people (plus a trainee), three young graduates playing the ADs, PAs, etc, and me as a boom operator/ recordist, a first-time producer, a grip, a PA that turned spark and the director.

I put myself out there for the experience, the bit of money that was offered while I underlined to the director that for this to work - with a single sound person - we need to discuss and preplan a lot the shots that are going to take place and take all the actions necessary to achieve the best possible sound. Well, he said ok.

When I arrived on set, I found out that the process is actually far from different. The camera crew has one of the best cameras around at their disposal and a DOP, with at least 25 years of experience. No consideration for sound at all. All locations were decided without tallying up any sonic problems and only now I have started receiving some help from the crew.

At any rate, when they hired me, the new what my equipment is (Edirol R4 Pro, MKH60, MKH50, MK-012). For some reason, I had the notion they might have an idea of what exactly this kit is and what it can do, and if not they would perhaps cross reference and see the extend of the capabilities. That was a wrong assumption.

I would like to add in this point that while I was interviewed, I underlined that I had no previous feature film experience. So, they new who I was, what my background is, what equipment do I have and my previous experience.

Coming to the point: I started listening back to some of todays takes. One of the locations was a pub, which has freezers in a separate room, adjacent to the one we were shooting. The lighting of the DOP didn't permit me to go to a place were my mic wouldn't face this room. And my terrible mistake was that I didn't made a point there and that this was my number one issue. Perhaps thinking that my booming skills would work in my favour. But alas, it was a sentimental scene and the two characters were soft spoken...disaster! A lot of hum and hiss

BTW, I spoke to the director about this freezers a couple days ago that we were shooting in the same pub - but in a different part of the room - and he said that he could not switch them off as they were granted this pub as a favour and that would be impossible. Nevertheless, I managed to turn off two refrigerators that were in the room that we were shooting!

In the morning we shot in a church. A quiet one, in rural England. Not a lot of traffic or airplanes, so all good there. But empty and echoey as I church should be. I had no idea were the two participating characters would be placed. The ended up sitting on pews situated in different rows. Without panicking a lot, I planted an ECM77b (not wireless) in front of the actress, run and gaffered a long cable to my recorder. And I boomed the "star". Again, they ended up being veeery soft spoken (an emotional scene, with tears). As a result, I had to ride the levels of the Edirol R4-Pro all the way up. And as soon as I started listening to the sound rushes I immediately found out they all takes were plagued with a lot of hiss from the preamps. Disaster number 2!

It would be great if someone could give me some advice on the two shot examples that I am mentioning here:

• Would you have approached the technical aspect on the location differently?
  
• Are the mic pres of a 744T, cranked all the way up not noisy/ less noisy (I will post some sound examples soon)?
  

I am definitely getting the grips of the set politics. But any advice on that subject would definitely come handy as well.

At any rate, I will be having a discussion with the director tomorrow, getting him to listen to what we've got and take it from there.

One last thing: Many times as a post sound mixer I've made fun of bad boom operators.. The last thing that I want, is to be like one of them. And it just so happened and I discovered that I like boom operating a lot. I would thoroughly like to become the best that I can. But I certainly don't want to be the one that appears as ruining the film and the effort of all the rest involved.

Cheers all and wish me luck for tomorrow.

[soundslikejustin]

This sounds like every independent film set, ever. All money spent on camera and no thought given to sound at all.

As for a technical approach, let them know that capturing good sound in the situations you have been faced with is tough even for a full sound crew, let alone one guy. Freezers need to be shut off, or they will have to do ADR. Actors need to speak up, or they will have to do ADR.

You could employ wireless or at least cabled lavs if the actors remain sitting (if thats in the budget) to help with noisy locations and 'soft-spoken, head down' emotional dialogue.

Yes, the preamps on the 744T best the R4 Pro, and are probably some of the quietest, nicest sounding pres on any location gear available. You're using some of the quietest mics ever made, you just need the rest of your signal chain to match it. There are only 2 preamps on the 744T though, the other two inputs are line level only.

Here's how I'd approach it. Hiring gear (and people to operate it) on set is little compared to what it's going to cost them later in looping. Put a dollar tag on everything and you might get what you NEED to get the job done properly.

And here's my wish of good luck to you.

[Tom Visser]

You lack the equipment and manpower to do this job properly, but you were forthright to production what you had and in that respect, you "technically" have nothing to be sorry about. What you need to do is to inform production, either before or immediately after you realize you don't have production sound quality tracks, that they need to....

1) go again for sound, getting the recording wild with optimal boom placement, to capture dialogue. Since you have some post experience, you probably realize that this doesn't always workout that well since often times delivery will be different every time and actors sometimes like to ad lib or slightly deviate from their lines, you never know what the finished cut will consist of.

2) acknowledge that the scene is going to need to get ADR'd and that your tracks can only be used for reference.

In the future, you probably want to be more adamant about your limitations and make it explicitly clear that if they do choose you, it is really on them to deal with the consequences, unfortunately, just telling them what gear you have isn't necessarily clear enough communication. Generally, the cheaper the production, the more challenging of situations your going to be faced with.

Part of your job as a mixer, is not just to fill the technicians chair and do the best you can, but to fill the role as a quality control expert. If you don't have suitable sound, you have to do what you can do correct that. If at the end of the day, you still can't get it, due to real wold limitations on set, you must have the difficult discussion with production that you have not done your job adequately, not in an apologetic "I'm sorry about this..." but from a QA expert's perspective and that if they do decide to move on, they must budget and schedule for ADR. This is a very fine line and requires some experience and perspective. A mixer who throws this flag for everything, like generator noise or broad-band-like background hum or hiss, will be expensive to have around, due to inappropriate re-takes for sound that actually could have been fixed in post. A mixer who is too meek to raise his concerns as an expert, does not have the personality or built enough confidence to be forceful when required, even though the job overall is one that exists in shadows and the background of a typical film set.

[atheisticmystic]

This sounds like every independent film set, ever. All money spent on camera and no thought given to sound at all...

...And here's my wish of good luck to you.

+1

Feeling your pain Brother Particle

Best

[Mirror]

Honestly, I don't know what kind of advice to give you that will fix your problem. And your problem is that you're in over your head. You don't have the right equipment. You aren't experienced. Not to worry though because the real problem is the producers. He has to live with it because he was cheap. Experience = problem solving= less problems in post. Sorry, but that's the long and the short of it.

Have you ever been a boom op in a REAL sound crew? Have you ever been a 3rd in a real sound crew? If you haven't then you are cheating yourself and your employers. I know, I know. You're going to say that they don't have REAL sound crews where you live. Well, move to a place where they DO have real sound crews. And then you're going to say that it's hard to get a job on a real sound crew. You are right, but a ton of people before you have done it so you can too if you stick it out.

This is to your producer; when will you learn to not hire inexperienced crew. Until you do, you deserve all the misery your getting.

Call me insensitive but too many people get on this forum and whine about having poor results without paying their dues.

Yeah, I know. I'm a dick. But I'm an honest dick that you should listen to, even if the medicine is terrible tasting.

[graham]

Are you listening to playback on your headphones? It's very different through speakers.

As for stress and anxiety, I say good. It will help drive home the mistakes/ assumptions you've made about yourself and your work( you could be too critical about yourself or you see where you are lacking).

With poor sound due to constraints of location, there's a point where it comes to, it is what it is.

See if you can watch/ listen to the dailies.

[Ray Collins]

You have done your best, you have told them the issues and you have been ignored, you have nothing to feel bad about. However as you care about what you do, I'd suggest the following.

First choice is the boom, when there is too much background noise go with lavs, to match, and reduce the background, go with only the lavs and not the boom.

My scenario is always boom first, then planted boom mics, (church pews are good for hiding microphones) failing those choices, it's lavs. I tend to like matching backgrounds and sometimes a Lav will sound different than the boom, as far as the bg is concerned. However it all depends on the situation, in the church the boom could give you the level of churchy fill that the Lav wouldn't pick up, but then it may overwhelm the Lav dialog.

There are magic things post can do to reduce the noise and hiss, and you may be over conscious of the shortcomings, it may not be as bad as you think it is. Others are also hearing the rushes if there is a huge problem they will be on you. They may have decided that they want to ADR the whole show, so get the guide track and let it go, it's stress that kills us, and the job is stressful enough.

Next time the actor is abusive ask him nicely if he is ready to ADR the whole show? Explain the issues to him if he asks. You will be surprised how fast refrigerators are shut down.

You are not ruining their film, they are, through their choices, do your best, you are learning a lot, be grateful for the experience.

Did you ask the director for more performance level from the actors? Usually the actor with the first line sets the level. Usually asking doesn't make any difference, but it's worth a try. The director has to know what a stage whisper is vs a real whisper is, but probably not.

Really work to get the close ups, you might borrow a Mix Pre and see if it's mic pres do a better job than your Edirol.

You are a technician not a magician.

[MatthewFreedAudio]

I agree with Mirror. It sounds like you bit off more than you can chew. Where things first went wrong between yourself and production is neither party knowing what needs to happen to properly get the production dialogue. This is compounded by improper equipment, lack of set experience, lack of experience on their part, and the two parties not knowing what questions to ask during pre-production.

Production has cut corners by not properly securing locations that are adequate for making a film. Actors need to learn how to deliver lines that CAN be properly recorded given the technical medium they are working within, and...a lot of responsibility falls on your shoulders to make production aware of what the sound needs are to properly capture the script they are shooting.

Too many people say "this is the gear I have for your movie so here are the limitations." As opposed to saying "this is the gear and man-power that is needed to mix and record your script properly. I have XYZ gear and it will take additional XYZ gear being rented."

In this case, both parties are at fault and will live with the consequences.

In the short term...learn as much as you can about being on set. There are obvious limitations at this point and perhaps nothing can or will be changed to improve them.

[RPSharman]

To succeed in this business, you need to gather knowledge and experience so when opportunity comes your way, you are prepared.

You told the producers you weren't experienced and didn't have adequate equipment. They shouldn't have offered you the job, and you should not have accepted the job. This could be your one opportunity, and it's clear you are not prepared.

We are not paid for recording loud and friendly actors in quiet locations. Anyone can do that. We earn our money by producing results in difficult situations.

Robert

[afewmoreyears]

You can talk until you are blue in the face about anything BEFORE the shoot begins... plan this, plan that.... have everyone UNDERSTAND and the like... but, when the starting gun goes off, and the shooting begins.... your on your own....

Nobody cares about you... sound... sound problems like the fridge.... people are busy with their own problems and issues... It is not all careless non caring on their end, they are all busy with theier own situations..but, some of it is actually... they don't care... re frame the shot for you.. ? because you don't have 5 radios.. think again... Worry about your Ederol R4 PRO? Nope... they could care less....

The reality is, no matter what problems you have going in, mainly, lack of a proper gear package and staffing... it will be AMPLIFIED once things get going...

What can you do?... Size up the show the best you can BEFORE you get involved... have the smarts to sense when you will be playing on the train tracks... and get off before the train runs right over you... It's all you can do... That's one way to handle it.. OR...If you choose to stay on the tracks, a very brave and good thing... if you can fight through and keep your head on... if you can, you will learn in leaps and bounds... but it probably won't be too much 'FUN"... You will live through it though, that I can promise...

Hang in there... Oh yeah, and the "STAR"... if he is working on this project... the laugh is probably on him... Never get intimidated... ever... get serious, stay serious don't loose your cool and just smile.... he'll come around... when he see's your not rattled...

If you get rattled, he has you just where he wants you... If you don't, you have him just where you want him... looking like the fool he probably is... He will know it too... and you will have the last laugh...

Your doing the best you can... what more can you do? Right?

[chrisnewton]

Hey sonic, cheer up. As others have pointed out, the sound may not be as bad as you think. You are working with good mics and if you've put them in the right place you will probably be fine. Fridges and other industrial noisemakers are problems for us all. If no one else is willing to step up and help you out with turning them off, just do it yourself. Talk to the bartender/owner, explain the problem (maybe let them listen on your headphones). be polite and sympathetic and guarantee you will remember to turn the offending machines on when you are finished, and make sure you do. These problems are really not your department (location mgr.?) but you are the one getting burned. There are some units that can't be turned off for various reasons (meat, other foods). beer fridges are ok to turn off. If the doors aren't opened much during the shoot, things will stay cool for a long time. If you appear confident, people will help you. As for whispering actors, good luck. If you have followed the proper channels to get more volume out of them (first AD, director) and nothing has happened, ask methodman actor to speak up. What have you got to lose?

Chris

[Michael Miramontes]

Are you reading the script or do you have one handy? Based on your post it seems as though you are caught by surprise as to what the scene is going to be about. It might be a good idea to look over the call sheet (assuming they're sending you one at least the day before) and go over the script. Then you can try to figure out how to record the scene. If a situation/scene comes up that you don't know how to handle then your best bet is to post the scenario here or do a search for it in case it's been discussed before.

Yes, you're taking on more then you can handle, the producer was being cheap and shouldn't have hired you (typical), and you shouldn't have taken the job. Been there, done that. At this point you're already knee deep in the project and you'll learn a lot when the dust settles. Since you don't have the luxury of being an apprentice then you may find yourself in this scenario quite frequently. So, my best advice is to plan ahead, do some research, learn how to deal with that difficult actor (you may have to push back a little), and get the camera/lighting guys on your side so that they can help you in a pinch. You may want to network with some local soundies in case you need to dial their number in an emergency.

Good luck with the job. I hope you learn a lot from it.

BTW, listen to afewmoreyears advice about that actor. He is dead right about how to deal with him.

[Martin Kittappa]

With respect to the 'Star' actor- If he's being a dick to you- he's probably being a dick to everyone else on the set as well, and has made all kinds of hellish demands during pre production too. One has to wonder why so called stars bother doing low budget indie films if they don't want to be supportive of the up and coming guys, but I would guess it's a power thing- They can't be the king of the heap on a James Cameron movie, but they can be all big and mighty on a shoot like this.

I've worked with A listers on Indie films, some have been amazing and some have been total douche bags. Often I find the worst ones are the ones that never quite made the A list and they are just bitter and twisted because of it. Just roll with it- Throughout your career you will find yourself working with all types if personalities. A thick skin is a mandatory requirement when you are working on our side of the camera. You'll one day be having a beer with other film crew peeps, and you'll be laughing and talking about who is the biggest asshole you worked with and who was the most amazing- For me Betty White is the most wonderful star I have had the pleasure of working with, and if we ever meet for beer I'll tell you who was the biggest dick I have had the misfortune to deal with.

[RPSharman]

I've worked with A listers on Indie films, some have been amazing and some have been total douche bags. Often I find the worst ones are the ones that never quite made the A list and they are just bitter and twisted because of it.

...if we ever meet for beer I'll tell you who was the biggest dick I have had the misfortune to deal with.

Plus one on the first bit... leads me to the second bit. Rhymes with Dim Button.

I am curious who this person is on the OP's project. But the advice is correct. Don't let him intimidate. You're there to capture his performance. He needs you.

[ccsnd]

There are magic things post can do to reduce the noise and hiss, and you may be over conscious of the shortcomings, it may not be as bad as you think it is.

If you find yourself on set thinking to yourself "They can fix that in post", that is a good indication you probably are not doing as good a job as you may think you are.

[Jim Feeley]

You've seen Living in Oblivion, a 1995 film about a big/rising star working on an indie project? The film, iirc, is better than the trailer conveys, but here's the trailer anyway:

[daniel]

sonicparticle (i like the name), the great thing about forums is the diversity of opinion. Read everything in context - the 'big shot' attitudes from some people here probably fit perfectly with the clients and markets they no doubt flourish in and i'm sure these guys get it right 100% of the time - get their full rate for work - every piece of kit they ask for and need gets paid for etc - but even these guys had to start somewhere (and in some cases in paid apprenticeships, partly afforded by a studio system that aggressively markets its products around the world).

Here in lil ol' ingerland there aren't any real apprenticeships to learn the skills from, its pretty much those rich enough to go to film school (and even they will need good connections and the spare cash to then work for free) or those who dare. 99 times out 100, on the type of gig you are describing, you will almost certainly be as good or better at your job than the producer is at theirs - if this was not the case, then the producer would have raised more money (or at least allocated budget more sensibly) to facilitate rendering of the audio part of their product to the level required. And perhaps the real issue here is what is that level exactly? To have a credible 'calling card', low budget, no distribution, film? Or is the producer of a commissioned TV drama just skimping on the sound budget? If so they'll probably get fired (just before you do).

You've got every right to accept an offer of employment from who ever wants to employ you.

Roger Corman finally picked up a life time achievements award after making something like 350 films, a lot of which he would describe as exploitation films. Actors, technicians, trades, crafts, directors, writers and himself all learnt on and from these productions and some of these people make up a golden generation of Hollywood names. The chances are your producer is not the next Corman; but roll with the punches, do the best you can, make some friends, talk to post (if the film even gets some), invest some spare, keep it real. Least you're not blowing people up for cheap oil.

ps. imho (as much as i love the clean quiet sound of the MKH60 and 50) if you've not got the spare cash, sell one of the mics (perhaps the 60 if you're set on drama) and buy 2 channels of mid range wireless, with high quality capsules (dpa / cos-11) that you can also use hardwired for spots etc - chances are this wont be the last gig you are asked to boom and mix/record and even when production 'find' you (as opposed to pay for) a 'boom op' they wont be up to much. The wireless wont sound so good in your headphones but the people paying you at this stage have tight pockets and cloth ears that only want to hear the words "yes, i can". Its cheaper to rent an extra boom mic when you need one (eg for exteriors) than it is to rent even cheap wireless and learning how to use wireless effectively is very much part of our job. Even top post production sound people find time to squeeze (a clever producer's) low budget film into their calendars and they can and will find a way of supporting a loose boom (because its been framed out) with the wireless mics or and some depth and warmth to the wireless with a boom (that was too noisy to use on its own).

pps i'm not trying offend anyone with my rant at the top, but there are other film markets and models in the world aside from the north american one. The technical side of these markets (as an aggregate) might not be as good as the 'hollywood' model but this technical diversity is part of the cultural and economic diversity that makes this world an interesting place. If you perceive yourself at the top of whatever 'tree' you climbed and truly enjoy the life, why make others feel bad about the 'tree' they may be climbing? This forum maybe hosted in cyberspace by a north american (thanks Jeff) but it would be poorer, i believe, if others felt dissuaded from asking and contributing.

[pindrop]

.......Usually the actor with the first line sets the level. .....

This is unfortunately often very true in my experience, because once that level is set it seems like concrete and can't then be done any other way! A phenomenon that also happens in documentary where the question level and tone sets the answer style and level.

An enthusiastic and energetic presenter can raise the bar considerably.

[Philip Perkins]

Don't be afraid, they can't hurt you. Pick your battles. Read the script. They can and will fix sound problems in post, just try to leave them as few probles as you can. Document what you do, and heads-up post about scenes you had trouble with. Get what you can wild, but only when there is a chance what you are getting is usable. Relax. Think about doing what's best for the movie at any given juncture, not what's best for you or for sound.

phil p

[John Blankenship]

FWIW, I never read any of the posts (until a recent one knocking North American sound mixers) as being disparaging. I feel that all the advice given has been right on and each person was obviously addressing the OP's dilemma from a certain perspective -- just as it should be. I think that all the input offered has great learning value if one chooses to listen.

RE: "Living In Oblivion" My first reaction to the film was "This is not a parody. This IS independent filmmaking. At least, a certain area of it." It's a wonderfully enjoyable movie that gets better with each viewing for those of us who work in indies.

Most people in this business are great to work with while a few seem to have mental complexes that require them to diminish others. As an earlier poster mentioned, they, no doubt, treat most people this way, so you're not alone.

And, yes the OP is in over their head without the experience or tools to properly handle the job. That's not a knock, just a fact -- and the OP pretty much said as much in the original post.

So, where to go from here? I'd say stick with it. You obviously took the gig to learn and this will teach you a bunch. Much of it is what not to do -- but that's extremely valuable. My main caution is that you don't misrepresent what you bring to the production, skill- and tools-wise, and it seems you have that area covered. Most new filmmakers have no clue what their film needs when it comes to sound and many of those can only learn it by failure. It's a situation of them avoiding really dealing with what they don't understand -- and few people understand the nuances of sound. So, they think of their film in visual terms, and "oh, yeah, we need someone to grab some sound." I think most first efforts that have a decent script and good acting fail to garner any success due more to sound than any other reason. And the ones with a decent script and good acting are usually in the minority to begin with.

Think of it as a fun learning experience, do your best, and good luck.

[old school]

There is two ways to enter the ocean if you want to body surf. You can put your toe in, then your foot and ankle, slowly inch in up to your shins and then your knees. Shivering and complaining of the cold you get up to your nuts and make the big decision to go forward or turn back. Many turn back. Or.... You can "Baywatch it", and run headlong into the surf, dive in and swim out to the waves. You may get wiped out as you learn to body surf but sooner or later you will either drown or learn how to ride the waves. Since you are already out there I say learn, earn, and enjoy the experience for what it is.

CrewC

[johnpaul215]

I'm going to take a stab and guess production didn't want to pay a proper rate for a mixer and kit. While the OP may be over their head, production probably had nobody with more experience willing to take what they were offering. They are getting what they pay for (no offense Particle). Hopefully it's a learning experience, and if they want to stick with location sound, they will join a team of skill people.

That may be a great way to learn. Seeing how things are done right, and knowing that was not how your instincts lead you to try it.

[pampasound]

Great advise from everybody!

+2 to Daniel

[seth]

There is two ways to enter the ocean if you want to body surf. You can put your toe in, then your foot and ankle, slowly inch in up to your shins and then your knees. Shivering and complaining of the cold you get up to your nuts and make the big decision to go forward or turn back. Many turn back. Or.... You can "Baywatch it", and run headlong into the surf, dive in and swim out to the waves. You may get wiped out as you learn to body surf but sooner or later you will either drown or learn how to ride the waves. Since you are already out there I say learn, earn, and enjoy the experience for what it is.

CrewC

poetry

[sonicparticle]

Hey all

Just came back from another bad day in the field. Just read all the comments and I have to say many thanks for all of them. They are really helpful. But I absolutely agree with all of you. I shouldn't have taken the gig. My lack of experience was aligned with the lack of experience of the production team. Lethal combo!

It's amazing what I've learned in that short amount of time. Incredible and invaluable experience. Just unfortunate that I am to blame as well.

I still have a couple of things to ask if you don't mind me. I need to go and clean right my log sheets asap and check out this SONY UTX-B2 and URX-P2 that the PA uni guys brought me from their university. And make sure that I can do something right tomorrow.

Thanks all once again