JonG Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I posted about this on FaceBook but since there was such a diverse response, I thought I'd talk about it here as well, for the benefit of audio people worldwide. I have recently been working on a lot of short term jobs. Some corporate, some "internet content", some theatrical. A good amount of day-playing as well. On most of these jobs over the past few months there has either not been any sort of plan for transferring media at the end of the day, or IF there is a DIT/media wrangler, they often do not have their own card readers. I have even had DITs tell me that it was MY job to provide a CF card reader for them! I have always carried a card reader because you just never know. But to have more and more people expecting me to provide one seems a bit insulting. A DIT is getting a kit fee, so a standard card reader should be part of the package. I wouldn't expect them to own any proprietary equipment like a RED card reader, I would expect that to come with the camera package rental. But any standard media like CF or SD really should be part of their kit. The other issue I am having is productions not having a plan to take the media at all. No computer was brought to set, literally no plan whatsoever. When I have brought this up, the production either assumes it can take my CF card with them, or they flat out lie to me and say something like "oh well we usually give the sound guy one of our CF cards and they record on it!". I know this is a lie because of approved media compatibility, the fact that due to liability, not many people I know would use someone else's CF card, and the fact that at no time in the beginning of the day did anyone speak a word of it to me, when they had plenty of opportunities to do so. The "it slipped my mind" plea doesn't work when it comes to handing something over to record onto if you are at all worried about anything being recorded. What are your thoughts about these scenarios, and what are some of your experiences when/if you have encountered them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 If a production cannot off-load the audio files on site. I explain I will upload them to their server or my own. (via FTP) ASAP, and give them a link. If they are not excessive in size, Dropbox or other file sharing sites are an option as well . I've 'lost' quite a few cards already on day-player gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwil Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I've burnt a couple of DVDs before now for the clients that prove less professional than you - file size permitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Ive done that as well, as long as the file size is small. But I don't like the idea of using up my bandwidth at home for that sort of thing when I probably want to use it for other activities. I have found that a lot of peoples ftp servers will disconnect if you don't babysit the transfer process as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjafreddan Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Whenever the production forgets to bring a computer, I zip the sound files and put them on my Synology server. That way I can hand them a download link and off they go. And later check if they actually have downloaded the file. But it would be great to have a small gizmo that can copy the content of an SD card directly to a USB stick. I would much rather hand over a USB stick than my trusted memory cards. There are "photo backup" gizmos available on Amazon and such places, with built-in hard drives, maybe they can do the job. I've never tried one and they are a bit pricey. Boy, I wish the USB-port on my SD664 could be used for file transfer. *Edit* I'm going to try copying the content of the CF card onto a cheap 16Gb Kingston SD card. If it works, then it's a fast and easy way to hand over the files. I seldom use more than 16Gb/day. Cheers Fred Edited August 23, 2015 by ninjafreddan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGraham045 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have had this happen in the past. Where the client made no plans to dump media. These are generally short gigs with small amounts of data. I give them a couple options I have a couple cheap 4 Gig CF cards on me that I charge them for in the invoice. If they want to leave with files. Or I offer to Dropbox the files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I do carry a card reader, but it only comes out if/when needed. I prefer they use that over uploading/Dropbox-ing, but whatever needs to be done.... On a gig the other day, they gave me one of their cards. I still rolled on my own (approved) cards, then at the end of the day, just popped one of my cards out and "copy directory" to theirs within the 664. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I wouldn't get myself too twisted about having a card reader along: what do they cost, $30? Not very big? I do a lot of dinky-daily jobs too, and I ask ahead about data management, so there is a plan. Often the transfer work is part of someone else's brief (like an AC) because there is no dedicated DIT--if there is they usually have a better reader than I have and use that. I bring a small laptop so I can do Waveagent tricks and make a report--I hate uploading master files because it ties up my internet connection for hours--thus I can download to their drive myself if I need to. No recording media not from me, ever. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I record to a drive and a CF... I also bring with me a few readers... and spare CF cards... If I need to I will let them take one... (one of my older ones..) and bill accordingly.. ( and buy a new one...) If there is no DIT, worry a bit... but no big deal.. If your on a shoot and nobody in production has a computer... worry a lot... Probably a good time to check about getting paid..LOL I have NEVER had an issue getting data to SOMEONE... ever.. Never worry about OTHER PEOPLES KIT!! Worry about your own... Edited August 24, 2015 by afewmoreyears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I download to SD card to a mini computer Create a BWF sound log Create a tracking log from a template if needed Burn to a flash drive I do carry a card reader too Then back at base I back up from the SD card complete with logs mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I always carry a card reader as part of my kit. It's no sweat off my back, and they are cheap. I almost never upload my files, it's not a service i'm interested in providing. I expect the files to be handed off at the end of the day one way or another. I will happily let them take my cf card and either deliver it to my house the next business day, or I charge them the retail price of the card plus 15%. I've got plenty of media with me, so I don't care how they want to do it, it's their show I'm just here to help them make their product. I will use productions cards too, if they are a quality card, reputable brand, and in decent shape. Haven't had any issues so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Harber Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Either A-Loan a CF reader (cheap, you're the hero, and it should be done by the time you wrap). These work well enough so buy a few. http://www.amazon.com/Compact-supports-SanDisk-Kingston-Transcent/dp/B0030UL7IG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1440467962&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+cf+card+reader B-Sell them a CF Card (treat it like an expendable). C-Burn a DVD and figure that one out (again bill for expendable and time). D-Wring your hands about it, throw someone under the bus and act like you've never had to deal with some adversity before. I usually go with A. Once or twice gone the B route. C... it's been years now. YMMV Edited August 25, 2015 by S Harber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Cameron Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I keep a universal card reader in my kit. It was only $19.95. I have lots of CFF cards. When I'm on the phone discussing the gear package, or in person at the start of the work day: as soon as I can, I'll have questions about who to hand off files to. Then I let them know that..."at some point in the work day, I need to hand off files." I'm fairly assertive about this. They know it's the day's audio I'm handing them. If they say they don't have a reader, I let them know I brought one. I once got snared in the dropbox thing and it took eons to upload the files. It was excruciating. I felt I should have charged for the time. It was December 23rd. I'll avoid that, even if it means keeping a card reader. And if I don't get a card back, I bill for it as an expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 On these little day gigs the DIT is often the AC dumping onto a Lacie rugged drive using a production coordinators macbook. If they are shooting on Red or any proprietary media format camera they often don't have a card reader, mostly because no-one figured out who's responsibility it was to bring it. The way I see it is if I have a card reader then I get kudos points for saving the shoot, especially if the BTS guy shooting on his Canon 5D ends up having to use my card reader as well. Being the guy who saved their production for the cost of a $25 card reader means I'll be top of their hiring list next time that they are crewing up. On the occasions when they don't even bring a laptop then Dropbox is my go to option. I don't let the dropbox upload take over my computer whilst I'm using it for other things, instead I just set the dropbox to upload overnight whilst I'm sleeping and share a link with them the next morning. It's always worked well enough for me. If I have recorded so much audio that the dropbox is impractical then I'll discuss other options like having a PA come over to my place with a hard drive, Fedexing a thumb drive or hard drive etc, but in those incidences they have to work around my schedule, and I'll be as flexible as I can with them as there's never a good reason to turn a good working relationship sour for no good reason. If they can give me cash on the day or if they say unequivocally that I can add it to my invoice then I'm happy to give them the card from the recorder. However, I'm not about to give a way the $80 Sandisk card that sits in my recorder and have to fight with the production to either return it or get it listed as an expendable for reimbursement. (Believe me I had the fight one time, they tried to give me a cheap brand CF card that I'd never heard of to replace my Sandisk. When I refused they stalled and delayed paying for it for weeks. I never did find out what they did with my original card after they dumped it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have a handful of 8GB SD cards. Cheaper than CF. After doing the PhilP waveagent tricks on the laptop I offload to the SD card and sandwich it between 2 3X5 cards and handwrite "Incredibly Valuable Sound Data"w production name and date on the 3X5. I bill em $20~~~ SD cost is 7-10USD~~~ I dont write "BOZOS" on the 3X5. No reason to burn a DVD~~ most current MBPs dont have DVD anymore~~~ cost of memory is, Uh, $20~~~And private, unlike the dropbox scheme. Slam Dunk. Refer the client to the Ashley Madison FUBAR and your internet time shall be cut to NADA. If you're not carrying a laptop, at least be prepared for the alternatives. I would guess that the NY Subway sound recordists might be reluctant to carry even one more item that only protects the producers from themselves. I do admire the Subway concept. Amazon~~~Sandisk, 8GB, Class 4 SD Card~~~~ Pack of 10 $44.95~~~~ still $20 to client if you have the nerve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 At $10 (USB2) to $13 (USB3) for a Transcend card reader, I have trouble understanding why it's an issue at all. I carry a couple on the cart and a couple in the bag kit. Mine have been deployed numerous times, and often greeted by a look of relief on the face of the person charged with transfer duty -- DIT, or otherwise. For regular customers there have been times I've arranged to have a card returned -- more than once at the next gig with them. For others, I'm happy to either use theirs to mirror to (of course, for the main drives I use my cards exclusively) or to sell them a CF for $20-$25 (depending upon size). Am I upset about making a bit of profit on a Compact Flash card? Hey, I'll live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 If I have to hand off a card to an editor, I'd make sure they return the card a couple of days later when they're done with it. Sometimes a reminder email works. But 99% of the time, there's somebody on set with a laptop who can copy off the sound files (with my card reader) and take care of it for me. I agree that it's a small thing, and even though it's really the DIT's job, you gotta do what you gotta do. What does bug me is on shoots with DIT's and they grouse that their system is so overloaded copying over camera drives, it'll take them hours to get to the (much smaller) sound files. Too often, the DIT is the last guy who leaves the set, because copying the files takes so long. And camera files these days are getting bigger, not smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 When I work as a DIT, I can always quickly slip an 8GB sound card in somewhere. Takes 90 seconds usually. DITs are usually crushed at the end of the day when our heavy lifting starts. It is not so much the size of the data that crushes us, but the yammering of ADs, production, PAs, teamsters asking "How much longer?" At wrap, I make an estimate of MY end time and announce that time on Channel 1 and stick a handmade picture of a clock to my cart. I've usually prepped the authorities to not bother me. Sometimes, a missing file can throw the whole data thing into FUBAR~~~ that's why data people are so cranky. The hard part of DIT is managing the voices around them~~~ the data, not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 One more note: if you're uploading files from home, you're still on the clock. That's the price of doing business this way. If the client doesn't want to pay OT for that in the future, they'll be sure to consider offloading files on the next job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) I had a pilot unscripted production require me to run around 22 channels and mix it.. I turned on the auto mixer on my QL-1 with success, but at the end of the day I had about 50 gigs of sound and they didn't think to bring a hard drive for transfer... I waited an hour after wrap and they finally brought me a 64GB USB 2 thumb drive which took another eon to transfer.. After they squished one of my DPA lavs, told me I shouldn't be using such expensive equipment, and that they didn't want to pay for it, I opted out of any future dealings with them.. Ps- they did eventually have DPA send me a replacement. Edited August 29, 2015 by Todd Weaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Lavaliers will be counting as expendables in medium - high budget shows, movies etc. I am hard to imagine a production with five million and over budget; to not have a money to replace a $350 expendable / lavalier. Edited August 29, 2015 by VAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 All the American show and commercials I have worked on give you a certificate of insurance cover for your gear! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onbran Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I've started bringing a small DIT kit when i'm away from a studio situation. It includes an Asus K200MA laptop. It's $300 and not powerful by any means, but I was bringing my really nice Macbook to shoots and I was just not pleased with having it on location around newer crews who couldn't watch their step. I use the Asus to backup my files daily. I will give my CF to DIT and then back my SD card up to the laptop. I had a week long gig about a year ago, and when the DIT was traveling back home with the files, the hard drive was somehow ruined by TSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I can get 32gb USB sticks for just a few dollars each...very expendable. If I am doing a daily for an out of town production, they get a USB stick as a gift (with production audio on it as a bonus). I also carry a small, cheap Asus transformer tablet for quick files transfers. Leas than $300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 All the American show and commercials I have worked on give you a certificate of insurance cover for your gear! mike +1000000000000 NEVER WORK WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE. If a potential client balks at providing it, walk away. It's a red flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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