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henrimic

Sound Devices CL-16 announced

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Yes, it’s already a hot topic on Facebook. 
For me this is exactly what I‘ve been waiting for for some time. 
I‘m still hobbling along with my CL-9 and 788. I am so annoyed by the CL-9. 

Have taken a long good look at Cantar X3, but this is very likely to keep me in the SD camp

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I’d be pretty irritated if I were Aaton. But it does seem like they’ve checked all the boxes this time. Faders are easily replaceable too from an access plate on the bottom. It has trim knobs! And I’m curious what that big screen will do. Is it a touch screen? It would be great if it could provide an equivalent SD Remote program so you don’t need another iPad dangling off the cart. 

 

3-4x SDI inputs would be a great use of that screen as well... though I doubt that’s the case
 

If it’s simply for meters and track names that seems like a bit of a waste of physical space. That thing is going to eat up like 5ru with the screen flipped up. 

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Yes, which is great, especially when the CL12 ate up 3RU unless you did surgery on it and removed the feet and/or shaved the sides down. 
 

I’m thinking of how tall it is when opened up and how that would mount in a cart. Probably ends up blocking the next piece of gear you have above it. Not a big deal but something to think about. 
 

Also, kudos to SD for going with standard 12V power via 4-pin XLR. I hate hate hate screwing around with micro USB cables and 5 volt power on the CL12. 
 

Any wagers on the price tag for this thing? I’m thinking they’ll ask for north of 5k. 

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6 hours ago, henrimic said:

for 888 and Scorpio

I'm really pissed about the kick in the guts to 833 owners that Sound Devices delivered 😞 :-/ 

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52 minutes ago, Derek H said:

Any wagers on the price tag for this thing? I’m thinking they’ll ask for north of 5k. 


Possible, but I hope not. The 888 is only 2k more, which would seem strange. Also it would firmly put them in Cantar territory (price-wise), and with Scorpio at least they‘ve stayed well clear of that. So I‘m hoping for the same here, although design-wise they’re getting closer. 
But I would actually prefer the CL-16 over the Cantaress in many ways, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the prices were similar.

Still hoping for a price well south of 5k...

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Very slick looking device.  Will be interesting to see the display in action.  I wonder if Sound Devices / Audio Limited's A10 Rack secretly supports these new rumored 4 channel slot receivers?  If so, would be slick to have an 888, 16 channels of wireless in 1u going into it via Dante and then this control surface in 1u as well.

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I'm really pissed about the kick in the guts to 833 owners that Sound Devices delivered 😞 😕


Why even make the 833? On small jobs where you’d want the 833 size the 633 already delivers 100%. It just seems like they made it to hit a price point and sell everyone the latest and greatest. 
 

Probably would have done just fine with two models, 888 and Scorpio and price the 888 just a little less. 

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35 minutes ago, Derek H said:


Why even make the 833? On small jobs where you’d want the 833 size the 633 already delivers 100%. It just seems like they made it to hit a price point and sell everyone the latest and greatest. 
 

Probably would have done just fine with two models, 888 and Scorpio and price the 888 just a little less. 

I agree, purchased the 833 just before the 888 was announced, and although it is fine for my needs now, had assumed all the "8" series goodies would be compatible.  Had I known of the new CL16 not being compatible (which was pre-announced at the time of my purchase) I would have waited and purchased the 888 instead.  Like I said, probably not going to impact me much, but for others I can understand some heartburn.

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm really pissed about the kick in the guts to 833 owners that Sound Devices delivered 😞 :-/ 

The 833 offers quite a lot for it's price and was never intended to replace any of the bigger recorders. It still can be paired with a CL-12 and a lot of MCU controllers which are a lot cheaper compared to what the CL16 will most likely cost. So I don't really see any problem with the lack of support for the CL16. 🤷‍♂️

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5 hours ago, Derek H said:

Why even make the 833? On small jobs where you’d want the 833 size the 633 already delivers 100%. It just seems like they made it to hit a price point and sell everyone the latest and greatest. 

 

The 833 fixes and improves upon the 633, it's the next generation. Am glad I waited and got the 833 rather than settling for the 633 back before the 833 was announced. 

 

But it certainly is very annoying Sound Devices has decided to artificially cripple the 833 just to prop up sales of the 888.

 

5 hours ago, Derek H said:

Probably would have done just fine with two models, 888 and Scorpio and price the 888 just a little less.

 

Was surprised by the 888 release, I thought the two models were going to be Scorpio + 833. Like the 6 Series has 688 + 633. (664 kinda is both a 6 Series and a precursor to the 6 Series, as the 664 was the first but then sort of got replaced by the very different 688) 

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm really pissed about the kick in the guts to 833 owners that Sound Devices delivered 😞 😕

You could always sell your 833 and buy the the 888 or something else. In the big scheme of things the hit wont be so big 10-12% - maybe the dealer will even do a deal. 

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Three things about this control surface:

 

1- The mixpre pots. Couldn’t go for more pro looking pots?

2- The Rec/Stop buttons all the way at the top. I hated that about the CL-12. Absolutely love where they are on the CL-9. 

3- I hope the comms buttons aren’t merely toggles like they were in the 6 series, performing different functions depending upon the menu you are in. Please be dedicated comms like in the 7 series. 

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1 hour ago, daniel said:

You could always sell your 833 and buy the the 888 or something else. In the big scheme of things the hit wont be so big 10-12% - maybe the dealer will even do a deal. 

Aside from the cost, the 888 isn't as well suited as an 833 is for most of my work. But for those occasional times I'd use a control board it would have been good to have had the option to rent / buy a CL-16 

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23 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Aside from the cost, the 888 isn't as well suited as an 833 is for most of my work. But for those occasional times I'd use a control board it would have been good to have had the option to rent / buy a CL-16 

Well then, buy or rent a second recorder when needed. I don’t understand the problem. I’m sorry you feel entitled to have it all at the lowest price-point, but this isn’t the way the world works. 
 

As far as aesthetics are concerned, I agree that the mix-pre style encoders are kind of hideous (hoping we can dial the LED’s down to inf.). I had a brief conversation with SD a few weeks ago about a product like this, but it was far too late for any hardware changes. While I may still go this route one day, I feel there are still areas where it would have benefited SD to confer with a few end-users prior to release...  

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1 hour ago, JonG said:

 

3- I hope the comms buttons aren’t merely toggles like they were in the 6 series, performing different functions depending upon the menu you are in. Please be dedicated comms like in the 7 series. 

It appears as if the com1/com2/slate and PFL's are the toggle switches like the CL9.  At least that's my guess on what those may be for.

 

10 hours ago, Derek H said:

If it’s simply for meters and track names that seems like a bit of a waste of physical space. That thing is going to eat up like 5ru with the screen flipped up. 

 

I think what they do with the screen is going to be critical to the success of the unit.  I feel the screen size on the Scorpio is way to small for a cart based recorder, so if you can navigate with this larger screen and elminate the use of an Ipad it would be amazing.

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6 hours ago, Michael Wynne said:

I think what they do with the screen is going to be critical to the success of the unit.  I feel the screen size on the Scorpio is way to small for a cart based recorder, so if you can navigate with this larger screen and elminate the use of an Ipad it would be amazing.


Yes, I fully agree. I also hope that it will not be a touchscreen. Touchscreens offer the kind of non-tactile control that I‘m trying to get away from with such a fader panel. 
 

I seemed to remember someone telling me that on the Cantar X3 and Cantaress any function can be assigned to any physical control. I understood that to mean that for example I could have the first fader control the mix portion of an input and I could assign the fader right next to that to the gain of the same input. After glancing through the X3 manual, I got the impression that this actually is not possible. It would be so cool, though if this could be achieved with the CL-16. One scenario where I could really use this: a gunshot fired in an otherwise normal dialog scene. Gains up a reasonable bit. As the gunshot approaches I drop the gain so I can also fully capture the gunshot. On the CL-9 this can sometimes be a bit hit and miss, but if I had the gain on a fader this could be a very precise and very fast move.

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Aside from the cost, the 888 isn't as well suited as an 833 is for most of my work. But for those occasional times I'd use a control board it would have been good to have had the option to rent / buy a CL-16 

I guess everyones got some beef or 'biltong' of 1 kind (the 'redesign' starts even before delivery) - I don't get why SL2 wouldn't have some additional O/Ps and powering etc. But as you observe yourself the 888 is more expensive (not far off twice as much), clearly the reason for this is more than just some extra faders, dante and track count.

Sonosax R4+ is small light and looks very good value still, with the track count you need, dedicated linear fader panel and some other nice features for just a bit more than 833 - maybe a way to go.

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4 hours ago, Constantin said:


Yes, I fully agree. I also hope that it will not be a touchscreen. Touchscreens offer the kind of non-tactile control that I‘m trying to get away from with such a fader panel. 
 

I seemed to remember someone telling me that on the Cantar X3 and Cantaress any function can be assigned to any physical control. I understood that to mean that for example I could have the first fader control the mix portion of an input and I could assign the fader right next to that to the gain of the same input. After glancing through the X3 manual, I got the impression that this actually is not possible. It would be so cool, though if this could be achieved with the CL-16. One scenario where I could really use this: a gunshot fired in an otherwise normal dialog scene. Gains up a reasonable bit. As the gunshot approaches I drop the gain so I can also fully capture the gunshot. On the CL-9 this can sometimes be a bit hit and miss, but if I had the gain on a fader this could be a very precise and very fast move.

HI Constantin-  As i understand it,  X3 does not have faders in traditional sense.  What looks like faders and pots are actuators and any level control can be assigned to any actuator.  Sooo I think -yes you can have  track level control on one "fader"  and the fader next to it a can control pre-amp gain of that track....   Actuator can be on the control surface like cantarem2, or cantaress- or the top slide faders(actuators) i think the rotary faders as well.    But i am sure there are experienced X3 users here who could chime in and explain it better.  The X3 manual can be quite confusing and there are a few basic functionary concepts that are tough to grasp at first.  

 

Looking closely at CL-16-- X3...   

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Constantin and John Gooch, you do know that this flexible assignment of each "knob" (fader) is the way Zaxcom recorder/mixers have worked for years. Additionally, when any given fader is assigned as a trim the actual gain of the wireless transmitters' preamp can  be adjusted just as if you were hard-wired with a conventional mic into an old style analog mixing panel. You can even do the "two handed mixing" is really necessary as we used to do: one hand on the level fader and another hand on the  gain trim.

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Yeah all of Zaxcom’s recorders even without a control panel have been able to do this forever. For example when I had a Maxx I used to setup a stereo pair with two linked faders. One rotary fader controlled the output of both and another rotary faders assigned to control the input gain of both in unison. No big deal. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 6:05 PM, IronFilm said:

I'm really pissed about the kick in the guts to 833 owners that Sound Devices delivered

If I may humbly ask, what is the application of a 16 fader interface for a 12track 8input recorder. Yes, there are 6 busses or is it the screen, whatever it may do?

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2 minutes ago, DanieldH said:

If I may humbly ask, what is the application of a 16 fader interface for a 12track 8input recorder. Yes, there are 6 busses or is it the screen, whatever it may do?

Probably the equivelant of what the CL-12 is for the 633. You don't have to use the rotary faders, you get some dedicated buttons, etc.

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